Approaching the diet in a scientific way

[bluegoo06]

Has anyone done any type of analyse to try and figure out why certain foods are on the ok list verse caution list ? I know the list was compiled based on ICers triggers and ok foods. But alot of the foods on the caution list (ie tomatos, bananas, strawberries) are food that are actually Alkaline food when they come out (enter the urine). Meats like chicken, beef etc when broken down actually produce acid ash, but are prevelant on the IC diet list. All foods are broken down into either acidic or Alkaline "Ash" (what is left after digestion) that affect urine PH. It seems to be the guideline of the diet to "avoid acidic foods". So, why if some of these foods are broken down to Alkaline (that are on the caution lists), do they bother ICers. Just wondering if anyone thought about the diet in this sense or has tried any
Experimenting with the effects of what you eat. Many of us also state often that it hurts more in the morning to use the restroom, which would make sense if its the "acidic" aspect of the food ash .( the urine is acidic in the morning).

Im not a doctor or scientist by any means, but I like to make "sense" of my world and what is occuring to my body. It seems IC has a lot of unanswered questions.

[traceann]

For me, sometimes I've never understood why one person can eat something and not have any troubles at all, and another can eat the same thing and it's a nightmare for them, lol. It was a lot of trial and error for me - and usually the stay away from any acidic food was right on for me, anything that caused me heartburn as well, bothered my bladder.

It is very interesting concept you've raised when you think about it though - how something goes in and how it's morphed by the time it comes out - and why they react the way they do... Hopefully others will add their 2 cents!

[ScarednConfused]

i also wondered this a lot. Especially since when i once saw a naturopath doctor he didnt understand the diet either. He kept trying to explain to me that by the time liquid hits your bladder its already broken down by the liver and then the kidneys or something like that. I think it effects the nerves which triggers a response to our bladder. I thought it was maybe even the colon reacting and sending messages to the bladder by the ND told me that wouldnt really happen either. So its gotta be the nerves or some other ingredient actually in the food like histamine or oxalate thats causing a problem. thats my opinion. good topic tho!

[ICNDonna]

I've never really tried to analyze the diet. If I know I will hurt if I eat or drink something, that's enough to convince me that I shouldn't ingest it. I see it as what my children and I used to call a "why is the sky" question.

Hugs,
Donna

[wagamama]

Well, I've always asked a lot of "why is the sky" questions, and I encourage my son to ask questions, so I understand the desire to approach it this way.

I don't have any answers for you. I did read "A Taste of the Good Life," where the author does talk about alkaline vs. acid ash, and the fact that acidic foods that can bother many with IC have both. Cranberries have an acid ash, and orange juice has an alkaline ash, but they both tend to trigger IC bladders. So yes, in that sense it is confusing.

My local support group gave us a handout that sort of broke the common IC diet irritants down this way:

Acidic - This means acidic when it hits your stomach, not the "ash" issue.
Nerve Irritant - Things like caffiene and MSG actually work on the nervous system and can affect how your nerves work.
Histamine - Many foods that cause problems - like aged cheeses, wine and beer - contain high levels of things like tyramine that can provoke a histamine reaction.
Allergies - Other items on the list are common allergens that can bother some people.
Additives/Preservatives - Many substances added to food to keep it fresh or to improve flavor can be problematic, like benzoates and nitrates/nitrites.
Phyto-estrogen - Soy and herbs like fenugreek can mimic estrogen in the body, and many women with IC find that changes in hormone levels can affect IC. (Soy is also a common allergen.)

I really like the "A Taste of the Good Life" cookbook because she really explains this all thoroughly. (My understanding is her background is in microbiology, so she's probably "scientific" too.) I think the IC diet handout is one of the best tools we have and I am so thankful for it, but I also think that constantly asking questions is what has gotten us so far.

[Goldfinch]

Bluegoo,

No one would disagree that many questions remain unanswered about IC. The Alkaline diet often sounds too good to be true to those newly diagnosed. If you research it thoroughly, you will find there are as many detractors as promoters, many of the doctors. In other words, don't be so quick to assume it is scientific. If consuming citrus fruits, pineapple, raspberries and the other so-called alkalizing foods truly provided relief for most of us here, we'd probably know it already.

When it comes to being scientific, I think the best way to approach the IC diet is according to the scientific method, the way you learned it in high school. Start with a very limited diet with foods from a variety of food groups until your symptoms abate. Use the IC diet cheat sheet as a jumping off point, since really it is just a compilation of responses from IC sufferers; we're talking numbers here, from a group of test subjects with nothing to gain except feeling better. Then introduce one new food at a time, and only very small amounts to start with.

There is no question that sensitivity to foods varies greatly among ICers, but then it varies greatly among those without IC but who suffer from allergies, histamine reactions, irritable bowel, etc. I've been eating peanuts and peanut butter for 60 years; it's filling, has protein, and travels well and doesn't present a problem for my bladder. The last time I was on a plane, the flight attendant asked that people within a spread of about 10 rows refrain from ordering or eating any peanut snacks, as there was a child in our section who was deathly allergic to peanuts: so much so that that she might have a reaction if someone four rows removed from her so much as chewed one and exhaled. I'm glad I wasn't traveling with a peanut butter sandwich, which I often do. It was a 6-hr flight and I would have been awfully hungry. Go figure.