Bladder infection won't go away

[sadbladder]

I've had a bladder infection for approx. a month, ever since my hysterectomy and repairs for a cystocele & rectocele. I'm on my 3rd round of a different antibiotic and I still have burning when I urinate. Why isn't it going away???

I'll check with my Dr to ask when it will be going away but do any of you have any advice for me?

I'm so sick of feeling all this.

Sadbladder

[ICLori]

Hi, sad, has your doctor been able to isolate what organism is causing your bladder infections?

The reason I'm asking is, IC feels exactly like a bladder infection but there's no organisms responsible for it, that they can tell anyway.

If it's E coli and a real infection as opposed to IC, some people I've read have been helped by ****, if you do an internet search on it you can see if it might be something you are interested in.

I hope you will be feeling better soon!

Blessings, Lori

[sadbladder]

Hi Lori,

And thanks for replying so quick. I just realized that maybe I didn't put in enough information on my post when usually I give too much! Anyway, my Dr did send out my urine for culture (a week ago) and said it was an actual bacterial infection. When I was there on Fri to check again since I was still having symptoms, they checked my urine in the office and then said it was still a bacterial infection.

I have been diagnosed with IC in 2001 and was just hoping that my symptoms were due to the cystocele/rectocele. I just don't understand how a bacterial infection lasts thru 3 rounds of different antibiotics!

Good news, I have some of that D'Mannose that I had ordered thru the internet a couple months ago but never took it, once again thinking things would be better after my surgery. Guess I should try it now. Do you know if it's okay to take that along with my antibiotic or should I wait and see if the Bactrim is going to work pretty soon?

Any more advice will be appreciated. Thank you!

Sadbladder

[ICLori]

Hi, sadbladder (love the name!) I wasn't sure if you were already diagnosed with IC or not, thanks for letting me know:)

Supposedly the D-mannose blocks the receptors where the e-coli and other bacteria can attach to the bladder. Then they are washed away in the urine.

Antibiotics usually kill the bacteria, I think, so as far as I know they wouldn't interfere with each other, might even help each other work would be my guess.

I've recently ordered D-mannose myself, hasn't arrived yet, I was going to see if it helped my flares any. Even though I don't officially have a UTI when I flare, I wonder if there is a low count of bacteria that, if I got rid of, would make my symptoms better. I figured it was worth a try.

The ads say it's more effective than antibiotics but you know, I never know if I should believe ads or not. But I did look up all I could about D-mannose before I ordered it, I looked for testimonials on the internet for it, not ad sites but message boards and stuff. Most of the posts were positive, a few were neutral, one was bad (one IC'er said it made her flare more, but a bunch of others said it helped them so....?).

I sure hope you feel better soon!

I wonder if there is some structural abnormality now with the surgery and all, like a pocket where urine can stay in and have bacteria? Or has the doctor made sure you are able to empty your bladder completely? Just trying to think of things that might make a UTI stick around. Of course I have been hearing about antibiotic-resistant UTI's too, not a good thing. D-mannose is supposed to take care of even antibiotic resistant bacteria. Seems like it might be worth a try. If it seems to make you flare though, it's not good...but most of the stuff I've read seems like it doesn't hurt people, it helps them.

Blessings, Lori

[sadbladder]

Thanks Lori, that was good information to think about and ask my Dr next week! Regarding the ****, I spoke with a girl thru another internet board and she just raved about it...that's why I decided to purchase some. I'm going to go take some now.

It's funny that you should mention a structural abnormality cuz I already have one! My diagnosis said it's a duplicated right renal collecting system...I think it's 2 ureters (?) or at least that's what the xrays looked like to me. Supposedly a Uro that I don't go to anymore, said this shouldn't cause any trouble but I've always wondered about it since I have had chronic pain on my right side for years. I'm going to check into this some more with my current Gyno/Uro. Thanks for reminding me!

Let's keep in touch about our problem & the ************************************.

Talk to you later, Sadbladder

[Sarojini]

I really believe you have pain from the duplicate collecting system/2 ureters. Doctors always say that kind of abnormality doesn't cause any pain... but I firmly believe that you know your own body and really CAN feel that kind of thing.

I am a biologist by profession, and if I think about it, I cannot find any scientific reason for why you should NOT feel it. The other ureter may be smaller and atrophying in most cases, but I am willing to bet that means you can feel it ALL THE MORE when urine tries to go down that one!!!

Ok, just my two cents... but the moral of the story is (a) you know your body best and (b) M.D.'s don't know everything.

:)

[ICLori]

Hi, Sadbladder, that's really interesting! I hope the ************************************ works for you (and me too!).

You know, I had this dye X-ray thing taken once, ordered by a uro who when he found out that I have a Mullerian tube defect birth defect, wanted to see what shape my urinary system was in. I never got a copy of the X-ray or anything but I was told I had a "partial duplication on the right side" and I never knew if it meant I had an extra kidney, or an extra ureter, or what on earth. I didn't care at the time because I didn't have IC or anything back then but it makes me wonder now. I remember when the X-ray tech took the X-ray and saw the results, he said "holy **" and I thought - oh, wow, what is wrong?

BTW, Mullerian tube defect is where the reproductive organs in a woman don't form right during gestation. I guess everyone starts out sort of with two different uteruses (uterii?) and they fuse together at some point to make one system. Well, with me, and with some other women who have this birth defect, they didn't fuse like they were supposed to, so that means I have two vaginas, two cervixes, two uteruses (and my periods are extra yucky and heavy, like double the fun, you know?).

Anyway, the doctor told me that for women like me, who have this extra reproductive equipment, alot of times our urinary system is weird too because they are formed at the same time, they begin from the same clump of cells I guess.

Do you have that Mullerian tube defect birth defect too, or was it just a birth defect of your urinary system only? Just curious, forgive me if it's too nosy a question.

Blessings, Lori

[liznazz]

I just wanted to let you know I went through something very similar from the end of March to the middle of May. I was diagnosed with a UTI. The culture showed sensitivity to Augmenting. took it for a week- didn't work. another culture, same bacteria, took macrobid. No success. Went through this process 5times with 5 diff. antibiotics. Finally, Doxycycline worked for me. Mind you, this was the same bacteria I was cultured with, and 5 different medicines showed sensitivity, but the only one that worked was the doxycycline. Hang in there; it took me close to 2 months. Good luck and feel better liz:kiss:

[pnut]

Can I ask, what are you guys talking about with the *****************??

Could someone pm me and let me know, I've been going through the SAME thing ( showing some form of bacteria in my urine, but nothing grows, and I've had doxycycline ( which gave me HORRIBLE heart burn, so had to stop it, and Cipro ) nothing helped :( Could you pm me and let me know what you are talking about so I can get some! I willing to try ANYTHING!

Thanks

Dee

[Dixiefireball]

i dont know what the ******************* are either LOL. but i do have a bladder infection i just got back form the e.r so now i know what my problem so that has to mean the one i started after my surgery on the 19th never went away and that dumb butt doctor:toosh: had no idea what the heck ic was. Oh i hate this crap!! i hate this pain! and that doctor wouldnt give me nothing but a perocet that i was already taking so what good did it do to give me the same thing i was already taking i asked her for a shot of anti. and she said i was learned in medical school that a pill works just as fast as a anti shot. is she kidding needless to say i'm sick of all these infection.
sorry i'm venting.
hope you feel better soon
Rhonda
im praying for the both of us!

[Dixiefireball]

b.t.w please let me know what all this ********** means you can p.m me if you have the time thanks

[ICNDonna]

The product edited out by ***** are sugar pills. They contain absolutely nothing else.

Donna

[pnut]

Oh, thanks for letting me know.

Why the heck would sugar pills help? OH well, thanks for the reply. Don't think I'll be wanting any of those. :)

Dee

[ICLori]

The only medical study I could find about these sugar pills (not regular sugar, but a special type of sugar molecule) showed it worked on rats to bind with the e coli and carry it out of the bladder.

There haven't been any human studies done, that I know of, only that one on rats, so there's no way to tell if it would apply to humans, too. The only "evidence" they have it works on humans is anecdotal which is worthless of course.

Plus you know how those experiments are - they probably had to feed the rat it's own weight in that sugar molecule for it to work.

Probably just snake oil, but I am still going to keep the stuff I ordered around and experiment with it the next time my flare comes around.

Blessings, Lori

P.S. Here's the only research I've found, again it seems mostly on animal models, none on humans...the computer will edit out
the name of the sugar molecule but you can still figure out what the research says about it.

Toyota S, Fukushi Y, Katoh S, Orikasa S, Suzuki Y

Bacterial adherence to mucosa is thought to be an initial and important stage to cause urinary tract infection. Among some mechanisms of bacterial adherence, the role of fimbriae and its receptor is worthy of notice. In particular, type 1 fimbriae, for which **************************** is assumed as a receptor, is reported as the most common type and called "common fimbriae". Therefore if a certain amount of **************************** is present in urine, it will cover the fimbriae of bacteria and competitively block the bacterial adherence to bladder mucosa. As the first step, we tried to detect **************************** in urine by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). Sugar can be measured by detecting the fluorescence which is produced by a sugar separated by ion exchange, reacting with arginine at high temperature. The results using standard sugar samples should have highly stable retention time and concentration curve with the minimum detectable **************************** concentration of 0.02 microgram. We investigated **************************** in urine from 186 cases. Since the **************************** peak was often masked by near unidentified peaks, the peak of **************************** could be detected only in 80 cases and its concentration could be measured only in 24 cases. **************************** concentration in the urine of the 24 cases was between 2.6 and 108.7 micrograms/ml and in most of cases it was lower than 20 micrograms/ml. Secondary, we examined the possibility of a **************************** in urine to prevent bacterial adherence to mucosa by the hemagglutination test using guinea pig erythrocytes and type 1 fimbriated E. coli.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 2576290, UI: 90172805

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effect of ************************************ and D-glucose on Escherichia coli bacteriuria in rats.
Urol Res 1983;11(2):97-102
Michaels EK, Chmiel JS, Plotkin BJ, Schaeffer AJ.

The effect of ************************************ and D-glucose on bacteriuria due to Escherichia coli with ****************************-sensitive adhesins was investigated in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats undergoing diuresis. Inocula of 10(5), 10(7), or 10(8) bacteria in 0.1 ml of normal saline or 2.5% or 10% ************************************ or D-glucose were injected intravesically and urine was cultured 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 days later. The levels of bacteriuria on days 1 and 5 were significantly lower in rats inoculated with 10(5) E coli and 10% ************************************ than in controls (p less than 0.05 and 0.01 respectively) and the percentages of rats with less than 100 bacteria/ml were higher on days 1 and 3 (p = 0.05 and 0.02 respectively). Bacteriuria was significantly lower in rats inoculated with 10(7) bacteria and 10% ************************************ than in controls on days 5 and 7 (p less than 0.01 for each day) and the percentage of rats with less than 100 bacteria/ml was higher on day 7 (p = 0.01). D-glucose reduced bacteriuria significantly only with a concentration of 10% after instillation of 10(5) E. coli (p less than 0.05, day 1). The results indicate that ************************************ and D-glucose can significantly reduce bacteriuria within 1 day and that their efficacy is dependent upon the concentration of both saccharide and bacteria.
PMID: 6346629 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Zafriri D, Ofek I, Adar R, Pocino M, Sharon N Department of Human Microbiology, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Israel.
Inhibition of bacterial adherence to bladder cells has been assumed to account for the beneficial action ascribed to cranberry juice and cranberry juice cocktail in the prevention of urinary tract infections (A. E. Sobota, J. Urol. 131:1013-1016, 1984). We have examined the effect of the cocktail and juice on the adherence of Escherichia coli expressing surface lectins of defined sugar specificity to yeasts, tissue culture cells, erythrocytes, and mouse peritoneal macrophages. Cranberry juice cocktail inhibited the adherence of urinary isolates expressing type 1 fimbriae (**************************** specific) and P fimbriae [specific for alpha-D-Gal(1----4)-beta-D-Gal] but had no effect on a diarrheal isolate expressing a CFA/I adhesin. The cocktail also inhibited yeast agglutination by purified type 1 fimbriae. The inhibitory activity for type 1 fimbriated E. coli was dialyzable and could be ascribed to the fructose present in the cocktail; this sugar was about 1/10 as active as methyl alpha-D-mannoside in inhibiting the adherence of type 1 fimbriated bacteria. The inhibitory activity for the P fimbriated bacteria was nondialyzable and was detected only after preincubation of the bacteria with the cocktail. Cranberry juice, orange juice, and pineapple juice also inhibited adherence of type 1 fimbriated E. coli, most likely because of their fructose content. However, the two latter juices did not inhibit the P fimbriated bacteria. We conclude that cranberry juice contains at least two inhibitors of lectin-mediated adherence of uropathogens to eucaryotic cells. Further studies are required to establish whether these inhibitors play a role in vivo.

[sadbladder]

Hello again!

I want to apologize to the moderators for listing a product name on the board that I didn't realize I was unable to do! Sorry.

Sarojini ~ Thanks for posting what you did....I am going to pursue the diagnosis of my duplicated thingy with my current Dr. I only wish I had brought it up before I had my hysterectomy a month ago!!! But I kept thinking of what the other uro said..."it's nothing to worry about." Since my surgery didn't really take care of the side pain, I think you may be right. I describe my right side pain like a squeezing or clamped type of feeling (like a garden hose that gets a kink in it???) and it's pretty constant.

Liznazz ~ I'll be calling my Dr today and I'll mention the name of the antibiotic you said helped and I'll let you know what they say.

ICLori ~ Thanks for posting the info on that product...I still haven't tried it yet but I will since it's supposed to promote bladder & urinary tract health. Nothing is too nosy for me so don't worry, but can I ask you something? How is it with 2 vaginas? Stupid question...are there 2 openings for them as well? I don't know of any other duplication in my body and if I did have them, they would have been removed with my hysterectomy!! You should get a copy of your xray cuz it's pretty amazing to see what the duplication looks like inside. Have you ever thought about getting a hysterectomy since your periods are so bad probably due to the duplications? Maybe you're too young & haven't had kids yet...I was done having mine...I'm 40. I'll bet your urinary problems are due to what you have in there. Check it out. You were diagnosed with IC as well?

And to Pnut & Dixiefireball, I hope your pain & infections go away fast. It is comforting to know that we can all relate. My husband always says that he is so glad he is male due to all these problems women can have. I'm still having the burning with my 3rd antibiotic so I'll be making a call to my Dr later.

I hope we can keep in touch about some of these topics. Thanks for everyone's information!

Sadbladder

[ICLori]

Hi, sweetie! That stuff is probably just snake oil but I'm so desperate I'll try anything. I guess I just have to hope my bladder is just like a rat's bladder, LOL! I didn't know we weren't supposed to talk about it, either.

Actually they did an MRI on me about ten years ago or so so I got to see everything side-by-side....with my reproductive system I mean.

Yes I have two openings. I first started wondering if something was wrong with me when I was a teenager and learning how to wear tampons. I would insert the tampon the way I thought was right, in my main vagina (one opening is normal size, the other opening is so small and off to the side that I usually have to show docs where it is by pointing it out) but the tampon never "worked" for me. I could see that the tampon was collecting the flow the way it was supposed to, when I took the tampon out I mean, but still I kept getting blood in my panties all the time and then I had to wear a pad. I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong, so finally I took a mirror and looked closely at things down there while I was trying to put in the tampon (I figured maybe I wasn't putting it in right and thought I could do a better job of placement if I had a mirror). With the mirror, I could see that something wasn't quite right down there.

Anyway, when docs examined me, they noted that I had two vaginal openings, two cervixes and by palpation they could feel that either I had one huge uterus or two of them.

The MRI confirmed I had two of the uterus, side-by-side.

I have had hysterectomy recommended to me recently but honestly I'm scared to, fearing that it might make my bladder worse (a lot of people got their bladder problems for the first time following hysterectomy after all.)

I don't think it's causing my bladder problems, because I had that duplicate system my whole life and only had IC for the last 4 1/2 years. I do think there might be a hormonal connection in that I'm 42, almost 43 and losing estrogen with perimenopause....

Blessings, Lori

[sadbladder]

Wow Lori, the duplication parts you have are pretty incredible...I'm glad you got to see them. Have you had any children? I was wondering how that would work with 2 uteruses.

I've also had my duplication since birth and I started having my bladder symptoms about 4 yrs ago as well. Maybe hormones have something to do with it....I needed the hysterectomy due to 3 prolapses and the Dr told me that it can be caused by lack of estrogen.

Hey, I noticed on another thread that someone said you could search for pain docs on the ICA boards...and you had trouble locating this, well, so did I. Did you ever find out how to locate pain docs that will treat IC pain? Im going to keep an eye on both threads since I'd like to find one in my area.

Have a good day, Lori!

Sadbladder

[blue]

Wow, duplications! I'm also curious about children.

When did it become where we couldn't post a product name?