Tense Muscles cause IC

[bluegoo06]

I think IC is caused by stress. An intial trauma occurs, and you put all your stress to a specific part of your body, in our cases, bladder / pelvic. THis stress causes your muscles to be constantly tense. You dont even realize it. The constant constriction of muscles, causes nerves sensitivity and inflammation. The inflammation causes your bladder to be more sensative to foods. So, I think PFD happens more likely before IC and causes the IC. I am going with this theory, and starting a PFD Pt program with Healing Pelvic Pain book and trigger point massages. MY IC started in the most stressful year / time of my life, Lost a job, car accident (back issues now and a crooked pelvis), fire in my house, moved 1000 miles for a new job . I have highly believe I have tense muscles, I know I do in my back from the car accident, and my pelvis is crooked, very likely it caused tense muscles in the pelvis with the misalignment and stress.

What are your thoughts?

[Briza]

hi yes I do believe mine was caused by stress and tension stored in the pelvic floor, the contraction of all the muscles there including the bladder causing the irritation and inflammation inside my bladder. When I developed my first symptoms it was following many years during which I was undergoing a lot of stress in my life.

any time I have made major efforts to reduce stress in my life I have either seen improvement or gone into remission. I have been in remission for a year next month, after taking time off from work and then when I did return I changed careers to something much less stressful.

now on the rare occasion when I feel my pelvic floor tensing up I use new-learned skills to handle my stress and get myself relaxed again. I am happy to have found alternatives to medications to deal with my stress. I am comfortable saying that as long as I manage my stress properly that I do not feel that there will be a return of my IC symptoms.

[kadi]

I think that may be true for some of us, but not all. My IC began when I stopped a birth control pill I'd been on for 10 years (I was on it to manage out of control cramps & pms). My mom's IC began when she stopped her hormone replacement estrogen therapy. My grandmother had intermittent IC. My pelvic floor problems came about after I got IC, probably from my muscles cramping from having so much bladder pain for an entire year. Pelvic floor work has definitely helped my pelvic pain, but has not eliminated my IC or even reduced my dietary restrictions due to IC.

[bluegoo06]

I definately can agree that IC is not always caused by tense muscles (maybe also a contributing factor in many), but in my case I believe it to be true. There are many methods of making IC / PFD etc manageable, and i believe IC is definately a lot of self discovery / self help in getting each personal case of IC managed.

Brizza, are you able to eat anything you want now? Do you have any dietary restrictions when you manage your stress ? Did it take a while for your muscles to "heal" when you started your stress reduction techinques?

[ICNDonna]

I absolutely do not believe my IC was caused by stress. To me that goes backward to the theory that the cause of IC is psychological. I do, however, believe that stress definitely increases interstitial cystitis symptoms, just as it does any other physical problem. I strongly suspect my IC was present for years before it reared its ugly head --- during the recovery period from an abdominal hysterectomy. In my case, I suspect the IC would have eventually showed itself, but the trauma of the surgery brought it out. Mine is not an unusual experience.

Many years ago I participated in a survey of IC patients; the result indicated that many IC patients developed IC following a major surgery.

Donna

[Briza]

well....then I guess I will be the first to say that my poor emotional health IS what caused the tension in my pelvic floor which in turn caused my IC. I don't see how that is backward if that is the case???

Some people store stress in their shoulders, their necks, etc. Others in their pelvic floor. Tense muscles are painful. You should see how tense muscles and spasms caused my vulvar tissues to burn and become visibly raw and inflamed. Certainly the same could have been happening to my bladder lining when it was spasming.

Stop the the tension, stop the spasming and the pain and burning in both areas went away for me.

There is absolutely nothing in my personal background or my family's medical history that in any way leads me to believe that I was "predisposed" to develop IC.

Wow it is amazing to me that anybody's theory about the development of their own symptoms would be called "backwards." Doctors and researchers certainly have not been helpful in finding out the cause of IC.

Donna it is great that you have determined what you think caused your IC. I am bothered that you consider my theory of the development of mine backwards.
The title of this thread is Tense Muscles Cause IC...would be nice if those of us who believe this to be the case could discuss it here without the moderator of this board telling us our theories are backwards.

[Briza]

I definately can agree that IC is not always caused by tense muscles (maybe also a contributing factor in many), but in my case I believe it to be true. There are many methods of making IC / PFD etc manageable, and i believe IC is definately a lot of self discovery / self help in getting each personal case of IC managed.

Brizza, are you able to eat anything you want now? Do you have any dietary restrictions when you manage your stress ? Did it take a while for your muscles to "heal" when you started your stress reduction techinques?


yes i can eat anything i want now and have for some time. i started out fairly cautiously, reintroducing coffee and vinegar and some of my other worst irritants but as time has passed i have been able to relax about it. i still keep well hydrated with water.
rest and taking off work for a year helped me so much. later when I discontinued my meds including xanax is when I started other stress managing things...seeing a counselor, meditation, stretching, exercsie, developing some new friendships based on support and mutual respect, weeding out the old ones. basically a housecleaning of my life lol.
but yes, it took some time to heal. I would say it was about two years of steady improvement til I got to full and unmedicated remission. :)
best of luck to you!

[bluegoo06]

The fact that I believe stress was a major cause of my IC does not mean that is a psychological condition. A psychological condition is something that would be treated by a therapist or a social worker. I believe IC has huge mental aspect to it. I do not believe that anyone on this forum is MAKING up thier pain or discomfort nor that anyone can wish thier or think thier symptoms away. I believe my IC came mostly from stress. I had a car accident which caused severe muscle tension. This severe muscle tension has caused me phyiscal and emotional pain. I have no doubt that this severe stress hasnt caused the physical aligments or severely contributed . From all of the events I have through this last year, i have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I have always been an anxious person anyway, and I believe my IC symptoms are related entirely to stress with the added effect of the car accident and perhaps surgury. I had surgury to widen my urethra back in March ( the best decision i have ever made, it is amazing not to have to go the bathroom every hour, or get UTI after sexual activity), that could have also affected my symptoms or increased them. My symptoms did not start immediately after the surgury, and they are way to random to be pin pointed as entirely diet related.

I go to a therapist for my depression and learning anxiety management. IC is a vicious circle, you get anxiety from the illness, which causes more tension and makes things worse etc. I am trying to get my life back in order and make sense of this illness. I refuse to take any medications for my IC, i have a mild case, it came out of no where.

I am glad for you donna, that you know exactly what you caused your symptoms, I unfortunately do not, the surgury I had was outpatient and not nearly as "serious of a surgury " as yours.

[Briza]

blue there is a book i read some time back called The Body Bears the Burden: Trauma, Dissociatoin, and Disease. The author relates stressful incidents such as childhood abuse, sexual abuse, auto accidents, natural disasters, and other extreme traumas that can be linked to the development of conditions such as PFD, IC, Fibro, IBS...you know, the can't find a cause conditions.
The book makes much sense to me definitely for my own case as a trauma survivor and IC, VV, PFD patient. When I read the book I finally could make sense of my symptoms and conditions, and see that they were all musculoskeletal in origin.
Oh, I also see a chiropractor and massage therapist regularly. Expensive but worth every penny to be medication free. I think it is fantastic that you are exploring other options for symptom relief. I wish I had done that long ago but you know I wanted relief right here right now lol. Doing the personal work is much harder than taking a pill but wow now I am seeing the benefits of putting in the time. And no side effects.:)

[ICNDonna]

When I first developed IC I was told by my physician that the cause of my pain was "in my head" --- I walked out of his office never to return! I then saw the urologist who diagnosed my problem as interstitial cystitis and assured me that it is a physical condition.

Donna

[bluegoo06]

donna, I have no doubt in my mind that your symptoms and pain are not real. I know that your IC is not in your head. But, for me personally , a lot of my IC seems to be triggered / related to stress. Ic is so vast and variable no one treatment / cause is the same for all. One day there will be a cure to help us all and IC will be broken down into more specific catagories so more of us will find relief. I am glad that you found a management program to help your Ic and symptoms. I am hoping to do the same. Please dont take offense to my theories and beliefs of what I believe to cause my IC. This forum is so great because it is non judgemental and caring. These things will continue to allow all of us to cope and conquer IC.

[Pac168r]

My IC started after a DC for a failed pregnancy. I bled for a month after, and felt like my muscles were "off". I asked my obygn and she said it was normal. I never thought it was...it felt wrong. My firm belief is that surgery started my IC.

Now to add to the stress theory...my husband wasn't there for me during this time..he went to work when I had surgery & withdrew from me after the loss of the child. He blamed me...screamed at me, treated me awful. Six years later, I am divorced, husband is gone & IC is in remission. Coincidence?

[kadi]

I think a lot of us get uncomfortable when someone suggests that IC is stress induced because many of us were labeled as "psych" cases, blamed for our condition, and left to suffer until we found doctors willing to treat our physical problem.

I can say that I am very relaxed all summer long as a teacher & have virtually no stress during the months of July & August. It makes no significant difference to my symptoms. The only difference is that I don't care so much about having them then...

[Zygala87]

I mentioned this before so excuse me for repeating. My belief is some of us have the gene for IC and at some point be it stress on mind or body IC comes forth. I believe this is true for cancer and other conditons. My youth was a total horror story. My mature years were most comfortable and Blessed. For no reason that I can see IC hit me like a bus when I was into my 60's. I think it will be some time before we really know what causes IC. I hold great hope with all the new research going on. If not for me, for our young people. Just my own opinion. Hugs, Ziggy

[VickiB]

I think a lot of us get uncomfortable when someone suggests that IC is stress induced because many of us were labeled as "psych" cases, blamed for our condition, and left to suffer until we found doctors willing to treat our physical problem.
I agree. I was one of those left to suffer.

When stress is mentioned as a possible cause I don't get the impression it is meant that the symptoms therefore are imaginary. Stress has been shown to play a role in causing high blood pressure, stomach ulcers, heart attacks, etc, -all very real physical conditions.

While I don't believe stress is a cause for everyone, I personally can't discount the possibility that it could be a cause for some. I think along the same lines as Ziggy, that we have it in our genes and then something sets it in motion. For me, I believe that 'something' was a series of UTIs.

Vicki

[sshannon74074]

I have flipped flopped on my opinions of the causes of IC so many times over a 3.5 yr time span. I felt like I've aggresively tried to find relief through many doctors and medications. Today I had a very stressful day at work and my symptoms came back in full force. It has renewed my interests in the stress and PFD theory. Thinking back when this all began, it was a terrible time in my life. My mother died of brain cancer, my grandmother died, my step grandad died, my girlfriend of 3 yrs dumped me for another guy and was pregnant two months later and I found out she had been cheating on me afterward when I had been taking care of my sick mother. My Dad and Stepmom screwed me out of a piece of land that I had planned to buy from them to retire on one day and be closer to my family but instead they offered it to one of my brothers friends. On top of that I've felt the pressure of my biological clock ticking and wanting to start a family. All of this happened in about a 3yr time frame. Maybe this natures way of debilitating a person to the point making them not fit or not want to procreate. When you think of animals in the wild, if they are stressed, they go into survival mode not mating mode. They wouldn't be able to take care of the young under such stressful conditions. Maybe there is a chemical released or one that accumulates during prolonged periods of stress or tense muscles that eventually cause pain in our pelvis. This might sound like a far fetched idea but obviously someone has to think out of the box on this deal.

[bluegoo06]

Your body does release a hormone during stress, its called cortisol. I do not know its direct effect on muscles or what not, but it does create some havoc in your body when it is in large concentrations over time (lots of stress chronically).

I finally have figured out where my pain comes from. I got a second opinion from another urologist about my IC. She also screened me for pelvic floor. She believes I have PFD issues, not IC issues. The diet didnt work for me and after her investigating and pressing certain areas, I can tell where all my pain is coming from. So, I start PT for PFD next week.

In my case, the doctor believes I might have been born with some PFD issues. As a child, I used the bathroom very frequently and have always strained during urination. Now that I have had the most stressful years of my life in the last 2 years, my PFD has shown its weakness. I must put most of my stress and tension in my PF. I have been doing back PT as well, which has also exacerbated my PF. So, I definately think in my case that PFD is very much triggered by stress, and I must have had some predisposition to it as well.

SShannon - I would suggest, if you feel that stress has triggered PFD / IC issues for you, to at least go get screened for PFD esp if the current meds / PT / management is not helping your symptoms. At least this could give you another opinion to help lead you in a direction to help you manage your symptoms. Good Luck, I hope you find some relief soon. Investigating PFD has taken a huge relief off me that I can now eat anything I want. IC diet was torture. And I pray that PT removes my pain.

[sshannon74074]

I do have PFD issues but it only seems to be a problem when I'm in a flare. Its one of those deals where did the chicken or the egg come first. My doctor seems to think the IC causes the PFD. It has been verified that I do have IC by a cystoscopy/hydrodistention.

[mouse]

I definitely think my IC and fibro are muscle tension related!!! I always feel worse when I am inactive or stressed. Through yoga and Pt, and accu I have become aware of how I tense my muscles. At times it feels like I am doing kegel exercises even though I am not trying to and I know that is counter productive for me since I have a tight pelvic floor. With that said I have had bladder issues since child hood. Just more frequency then others but nothing like today. But I also had a very difficult childhood and wonder what type of role, if any, it played in my urinary frequency as a child??? Especially since I never had a bladder or urinary tract infections. Although, it may have played no role in my childhood symptoms since I recently found out I was born with spina bifida.

If you believe in chinease medicine, like my accupunturist and yoga instructor do, we all store negative experiences in our bodies. Kidneys and bladder according to my yoga teacher are the two main organs that store or hold on to these expereinces. Let's face it every muscle and connective tissue in our bodies has a motor memory. Tense a muscle long enough and you will feel pain. Any physical trauma, such as surgery and birth or emotional situations can cause us to tense our muscles without even knowing it. That's why our head or neck often hurts when we are stressed....that is where we are holding tension. I know when I am in pain I tend to tense my muscles. I doubt very few people are actually able to relax their muscles when they are in pain! Tensing the muscles in turn makes the pain worse and long term can lead to a "Motor memory" (like nerves) that fire even when there is no stressor causing it to.

For me the IC really became an issue 3 years ago after I passed a kidney stone. It left a cluster of trigger points and nothing has ever gone back to being the same. First came that constant gotta go feeling where the trigger points were. Then after months of PT pain, and vaginal burning. Also urethral symtoms and still the constant pressure over my bladder and all over pelvic pain.

On the other hand I have seen pictures of when they performed my cystoscopy with hydro and there was definitely something wrong with my bladder. It was not smooth like a healthy organ should look. It looked like veins growing up the side of my bladder wall. So I know the damage inside the bladder is real but I don't know if that is because i have endometriosis and scaring everywhere so it just attacked my bladder too or if that is what IC looks like. Also I don't know if they hydro it's self caused some of the damage. How do we know when the doctors are doing that they are not swelling our bladder beyond their normal capacity. When I had a cysto done 8 year prior (no hydro) the urologist told me I had a perfectly normal bladder. He noted my bladder was on the small side so naturally would have less of a capacity, and my urethra was tight.

Regardless of the cause of the damage, I have often wondered if my bladder is damaged and the walls have become "leaky" as they say, then why don't I have food triggers and even such things as hot source doesn't bother me???

Also, for me, knowing I have this diagnosis has made things worse. Prior to passing a kidney stone in 2007, when the **** hit the fan, I didn't know my former urologist in 2002 diagnosed me with IC. At the time he just told me I had an unhealthy bladder and I figured since he couldn't fix it and I lived with a little extra frequency my entire life why bother!! But ever since I found out I have this disease my life has been on a down hill spiral and all of a sudden I became IC!!!! Looking back over the last so many years of my adult life, before I knew the diagnosis, I had some urethral discomfort and pelvic floor pain but I always blamed it on other things, like I must be passing a small kidney stone or I am just crampy because of my endometriosis. Now that I know what it is, It's almost like I am more afraid and I am more in tune to the pain and discomfort, where in the past I would just ignore it. Is it really the same intensity....I guess I will never know for sure but I wish to God I could just go back to the days where I shrugged it off!!

[mouse]

Does anyone else think the "knowing" part has actually led to more anxiety and symptoms in regards to the disease or do most people just feel relieved that they finally know what it is???

[Snowden1]

I totally agree that knowing this is a lifelong disease has hurt me. I just kept thinking that it was surgical pain and I was just taking longer to heal. I do have food triggers, though and didn't realize why some foods were really hurting me badly. I then started to wonder if I would ever heal and then I put some metrogel in for BV and that is when my bladder went off the deep end. It was not something I could ignore at all - it was horrible and continues to be horrible now. I think knowing this is "incurable" has really shaken me to the core. In addition, I keep trying things without success so this adds to the anxiety of waking up daily in what feels like the "day after surgery."

[bluegoo06]

Being diagnosed with IC, was relief because I knew there was something not normal with my bladder / pelvis. So it was nice to have a name for it. The diet and the fact that it was not curable created so much anxiety my symptoms got worse.

So, I had the IC diagnoses for about 6 months. After trying the diet with no success, I have a mild IC case and dont want to take any prescriptions if I can avoid it, I got a second opinion. My intial diagnoses was from cysctopy and Dr. said I had "mild" irritation. My second urologist , definately didnt think it was IC and says all my issues are related to muscle tension and this has caused some inflammation around the bladder causing some of the other symptoms. So, i start PT this week. Hope it helps! I know i definately have a lot of tension

[mouse]

Snowden1 I can completely relate that I have more anxiety after I try another med or another treatment and nothing works. Sometimes when I just read people's post on this network I start getting anxious!! I think that's why, the rare times, I have felt fairly normal in the last 3 years, I try to stay away. Last night I was sooo anxious before starting Savella....Well for two reasons. Number one I desperately need it to work. I want my life back and number two I have alot of negative side affects from most meds and am deathly afraid of urine retention!!!!

I don't see how stress or PFD can cause hulner's ulcers but then again who knows??? Maybe it's like when peolple develope stomach ulcer because of stress??? I know I had stomach ulcers as a child and back then I ate as bland as can be. Now I love spice and even though I was diagnosed with gastritis and a peptic ulcer spice, the hotter the better, doesn't seem to bother me!!

At the end of the day none of us really know what caused this...We are all just theorizing, which is fine if it leads us down a path of wellness. I guess maybe you can say there are 3 types of groups defined under the IC label. There are the individuals who's main problem is PFD and they don't benefit from the diet because they have no real food triggers. Then there are the patients with a mixture of IC and PFD. These would be the people who have some food irritants combinded with some sort of pelvic floor issues. And then there are the individuals who have just IC without PFD. But I would think anyone experiencing pain or discomfort in their pelvic region, over the course of the years would develop some sort of PFD because pain equals tension and chronic tension leads to tight muscles, connective tissue and ligaments.

[mouse]

I have flipped flopped on my opinions of the causes of IC so many times over a 3.5 yr time span. I felt like I've aggresively tried to find relief through many doctors and medications. Today I had a very stressful day at work and my symptoms came back in full force. It has renewed my interests in the stress and PFD theory. Thinking back when this all began, it was a terrible time in my life. My mother died of brain cancer, my grandmother died, my step grandad died, my girlfriend of 3 yrs dumped me for another guy and was pregnant two months later and I found out she had been cheating on me afterward when I had been taking care of my sick mother. My Dad and Stepmom screwed me out of a piece of land that I had planned to buy from them to retire on one day and be closer to my family but instead they offered it to one of my brothers friends. On top of that I've felt the pressure of my biological clock ticking and wanting to start a family. All of this happened in about a 3yr time frame. Maybe this natures way of debilitating a person to the point making them not fit or not want to procreate. When you think of animals in the wild, if they are stressed, they go into survival mode not mating mode. They wouldn't be able to take care of the young under such stressful conditions. Maybe there is a chemical released or one that accumulates during prolonged periods of stress or tense muscles that eventually cause pain in our pelvis. This might sound like a far fetched idea but obviously someone has to think out of the box on this deal.

Like the other post stated stress does cause you to release a hormone called cortisol. When I was at my worse, after I passed a kidney stone, and no one could figure out why I still felt like it was there and things continually got worse I became so stressed that I developed a condition called an adrenal stress disorder. Basically what this means is my body is constantly in a "Fight" or "flight" mode. Recently, in speaking with my fertility specialist he told me that people with adrenal stress disorders or auto-immune diseases often cannot get pregnant because they develop Natural killer cells that prevent the embryo from attaching. It's nature's way of saying "This is not a good time to be pregnant!!" So as crappy and unfair as it may be there is something to your theory.

[sissygirl]

To add my 2 cents here to this valuable discussion, I wish my uro had considered that pelvic floor issues were playing at least some role in my bladder symptoms--it never came up and I think patients should know to ask about it when seeking a diagnosis .... My bladder discomfort and frequency were helped by xanax so I think muscle tension must have been a factor.

Even if one has IC, it makes sense to me that strategies to calm the pelvic muscles which have tensed up from pain would reduce overall symptoms....

[mouse]

The problem is your uro probably doesn't even know that PFD exists or he doesn't believe in it. I know I had to find a PT and learn about PFD on my own!! My doctor had never even heard of it. I have been trying to educate him, in case other women come in with similar problems as mine, but I think it is just falling on deaf ears....and my doctor is young!! But apparently not progressive.

I have to be truthful, even though I know the PFD is my main problem, oh dear god I can feal the knots and tight bands when my pt is working on me, I haven't found treating it has really helped. I really don't get that great of relief from muscle relaxants and while PT definitely helped those origional trigger points, I had after I passed my kidney stone, it hasn't done much beyond that!! :( I've tried following the so called protocol in the books that are suppose heal pelvic pain but all that body work sometimes just makes me feel worse. The one thing that seems to take alot of my pain away is stretching and hot baths but it is very short lived. I feel like I am so tight that if I don't stretch every hour I don't see any benefit from it!! I really wish there was more of a solution :help:

[Snowden1]

Snowden1 I can completely relate that I have more anxiety after I try another med or another treatment and nothing works. Sometimes when I just read people's post on this network I start getting anxious!! I think that's why, the rare times, I have felt fairly normal in the last 3 years, I try to stay away. Last night I was sooo anxious before starting Savella....Well for two reasons. Number one I desperately need it to work. I want my life back and number two I have alot of negative side affects from most meds and am deathly afraid of urine retention!!!!

I don't see how stress or PFD can cause hulner's ulcers but then again who knows??? Maybe it's like when peolple develope stomach ulcer because of stress??? I know I had stomach ulcers as a child and back then I ate as bland as can be. Now I love spice and even though I was diagnosed with gastritis and a peptic ulcer spice, the hotter the better, doesn't seem to bother me!!

Mouse, Oh my goodness I feel exactly the same way starting a new med. Praying that it works and praying I won't end up in ER again with side effects. Retention is a huge issue for me too.

I also don't understand how hunner's ulcers can be caused by PFD. Stomach ulcers are caused by the H-Pylori bacteria. I still don't think Dr's have researched the possibility that some IC patients (maybe not all) have an undiscovered bacteria. I as am really food sensitive especially Vit C and B. I can't take these at all.

I just pray that I find something that works for me soon. I know this sounds selfish, and I do pray for everyone else too, but I need some relief. I feel the same as you do about PF therapy. I had it and kept doing it with my husband. Although, there are tons of tight muscles and hard spots that were worked out - they always return. I think this is because my bladder is causing the PFD. Who knows. This site can be overwhelming because there don't seem to be many who post when they feel good. But, I would think people would want to give hope to others when they find something that works for them. I have looked through the success stories and although some are truly success stories, most are just how people are still trying to cope. I print out any success story when I see one to remind me that some people really are getting better.

[lulu77]

This is my first post on the site, because I want to avoid the depressing threads, and I definitely don't want to generate one when I am feeling depressed.

I relate to your stories very much. I have not been officially diagnosed yet because I do not have frequency or urgency, just pain, constant never ending pain. I went through a very stressful year and suddenly I got these painful symptoms in/near/around bladder, who knows.

I know most people on this site don't like the idea of people telling them their disease is due to stress, because it would blame their own ability to handle situations and not blame "destiny". I think every illness has a mental, emotional and maybe even spiritual factor.

Most of the people on this thread seem very open minded in this sense and it was a great relief for me to read your stories.

The Knowing or Not Knowing factor also had a great effect on me.
I think we will beat this or accept it and it won't be such a great issue in our lives.

Hope you all have a lovely day!!

[Briza]

hi lulu
welcome to the board :) glad you found us and hope you find the support you need here.

[Snowden1]

lulu,
I totally agree with you about stress. They have done studies and it your body is just unable to heal or stay healthy under great amounts of stress. When I got IC I had just had a complete hysterectomy, had multiple infections that took weeks to catch and get rid of, my daughter had broken her arm, my other daughter was having stress breakdowns due to a class at school, my mother came to stay with me during (recovery) and I didn't get any sleep (I was doing more than before), our dog had cancer and we had to put her to sleep - the list goes on and on. I was also off all hormones (HRT) becasuse I had stage 4 endometriosis. I think all these factors came together to bring on IC.

I am like you. My frequency is much better (I think because I am on Lexapro again and this makes me retain more) as well as my urgency. But the daily pain is unrelenting. So, I really understand how you feel. Some days are just so difficult to get through.

I hope you can find some relief soon. What things have you tried?

[lulu77]

I am 32 yrs old, and live in Argentina, so access to many of the therapies available in the US is difficult to find, not because there aren't any but because most of the people on the network live in the states.
I haven't really tried much. I am seeing a Psychiatrist who is certain this is stress related and by this he is not saying "it is all in my head", he just thinks that by tackling the stress part I will be able to get rid of some of my symptoms. I am also starting PT in about 3 weeks. I have been on and off meditation, but now will take it more seriously because there is medical proof that it helps with stress. Remember I have not been diagnosed yet, although it is a possibility.
I really liked this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc

[lulu77]

Thank you Briza!! you were the most inspiring to me when I first logged on to the network.

[mouse]

I have been very inactive for the last couple of weeks. No stretching, no yoga, no hot bath soaks and my pain has definitely increased. We recently had another failed IVF cycle using a gestational carrier and it has definitely thrown me into a depression...Not to mention the rage I feel because none of the doctors can explain it. We had grade 5aa (top quality) embryos implanted into a 25 year old GC with a healthy uterus and we didn't even get a chemical pregnacy:evilsmile Dr.'s are just shaking their heads because according to everyone at the very least she should have come up positive on the pregnancy test.

Anyways you can only imagine how I feel. I spend days on end laying in bed searching for answers on the computer. I've noticed as I lay here that even though my muscles should be relaxed, I am lying in bed, they are very tense. I almost have to keep reminding myself "relax", "relax" and shaking my legs out.

Tonight I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself and I went out side for a walk...Even though I really didn't want to because everything was hurting so bad, especially my legs from the fibro. I only walked about 20 minutes but by the times I was done the pain was so much better :) Then I stretched. Took a hot bath and thought I would have a good night....Wrong!! While my pain is still better my bladder keeps singing gotta go, gotta go. I am finding this is a recurrent theme everytime I try to work out. The pain gets better but the frequency and urgency gets worse. Does anyone else have this and if so what do you do???

[Jase]

If you have IC or pelvic pain it is more than likely that a person will feel stressed. I would think it would be abnormal to suffer from IC or chronic pain and to not to have some amount of stress about it. However It seems a great leap to then suggest that stress is then a causative factor for IC in the first place.

Muscle tense in response to pain for example an irritated bladder, an entrapped nerve or endemetriosis or pain after surgery etc. I think virtually everyone with pelvic pain will also have tight pelvic floor muscles as you are bound to tense if you are experiencing pain or irritation. I expect there are definitly some people whose pain is caused by stress but there are also lost of physical causes of IC or pelvic pain. I agree that it is important to manage stress when you suffer from IC and meditation and relaxation can help. I also think that stress will make pain worse.

I also think there a lot of myths surrounding the way the brain interacts with the body. For example in popular media you often see the view that thinking positively boosts the immune system stated as a proven fact. It is not, Cell Biologist Barbara Ehrenreich destroys this theory in her book Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America . There are some interesting videos on youtube with her about this.

[ck1]

- Stress can cause your body and even organs to tense up.

- The tension can cause pelvic floor tension.

- Pelvic floor tension can cause pain in the bladder and other IC symptoms.

- I totally agree with the OP that stress can cause IC.

[Snowden1]

Jase,
Interesting. I have heard that stress causes IC symptoms to get worse, but feel I have been under a horrible amount of stress and my symptoms haven't changed. I have been resting at home and my symptoms have gone through the roof. I just can't figure it out, although I know I do have tons of diet triggers.

[Charisse]

Yes yes and yes. I started out with only PFD symptoms (no food sensitivity). I was unconsciously clenching my pelvic floor and stomach muscles ALL THE TIME because I was experiencing such high anxiety in my life and having the most horrid urethral twisting/stabbing episodes that I couldn't even walk. It wasn't until a few years later that I started noticing red food dye (kool aid) would cause me to urinate frequently. I think Donna is misunderstanding what you are saying. We all experience stress, it's what we do with our muscles in response to it that causes issues. That doesn't mean stress causes IC or that it's psychological and I don't think that's what anyone is implying here. Like the PP said about one person holding tension in their neck versus their back etc. I don't doubt there are other factors involved such as genetics but no one ever told me about PFD back in 2000 when I first started having problems. I was told I had an irritable bladder and that everything looked fine :(

[sissygirl]

Another distinction that may be helpful here is that stress can cause muscle tensing and spasms that can in turn create a host of urinary and pelvic symptoms....and anxiety/stress can make you feel those symptoms all the more acutely

It is a stretch tho to say that stress can cause problems with the actual bladder lining, which is the strictest definition of IC......and perhaps more the case for people who are diet sensitive....

Of course none of this is to say that it is "all in your head"...

Interesting that some uros are calling these symptoms by the bigger tent name of "painful bladder syndrome"

[ICNDonna]

One of the major reasons for a change in the name is that interstitial cystitis suggests infection; the thought is that PBS is more descriptive. I'm just happy that the "new" name includes IC.

I have to agree that my ulcers and bladder lining damage were not caused by stress, but stress can absolutely bring on an IC flare.

Donna

[Snowden1]

I have to agree with Donna too. I don't think that my bleeding from my bladder and food sensitivity is caused by stress. I know when I eat something wrong that it not stress - I will pay for it dearly so I don't do it.

[Julie B]

We are actually teaching a class tomorrow night about this here at ICN. We will be talking about the very real affect that stress has on IC patients. It is a very fun class. It is only $15.00.

To register and receive the log in information visit: http://ow.ly/2t6Vp

That being said, there are many IC patients (myself included) who felt that their bout with IC really began with stress. For me, I am sure I was predisposed to it just like my mom was predisposed to ulcers; but, a whirlwind of stress back in 1996 really put me over the edge. FYI: This doesn't mean that IC is the result of hypochondria, but rather the cascade of stress hormones that is released during stress (especially traumatizing experiences and long standing stress like unemployment) is a chemical burden on the body and can most certainly affect the bladder.

I would love to see some of you there tomorrow. I think you will enjoy it!

[ck1]

Julie - I can't find the link to register for tonight's class -

You wrote: To register and receive the log in information visit: http://ow.ly/2t6Vp

[Jase]

- Stress can cause your body and even organs to tense up.

- The tension can cause pelvic floor tension.

- Pelvic floor tension can cause pain in the bladder and other IC symptoms.



I agree , that is one cause of muscle tension.

However there are many other reasons for pelvic floor spasm. For example if you develop adhesions on a nerve in your pelvis the muscles around will tense up in response. No amount of relaxation will allow these muscles to permanently release since the primary cause of the tension is not being treated. Thats not a theory that's a fact.

Again if you have ulcers on your bladder which cause pain you cannot just relax and expect your pelvic floor to permanently relax. The bladder needs to be treated before you try to release the muscles that are tensing in response to it.

If you have purely muscle tension then I agree relaxation will help.

[jvr]

Hi Jase,

You are obviously a knowledgeable and well researched person. I've learned a few interesting things from you by reading your posts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the boards here:)

Jill

[Jase]

Thanks JVR , thats nice of you to say. This is a great forum. Like everyone else I am just doing my best to try and get better.

[darlene]

Stress is very common in the world. Think of the victims of floods, earthquakes, fires , war, terrorism etc. IC is not that common. what makes us different? It's not our reaction to stress, but it most likely is in our genes. I always have white blood cells in my urine without any infection. I have other autoimmune diseases, Crohn's disease and Psoriasis. I truly believe our genetics is the true cause of our IC. We need to stop believing that having stress or not handling it properly caused our IC. Do we not know other people who have stress in their lives? Most, if not all of them, don't have IC. They don't carry the genes necessary for IC to develop and they will never get it , no matter how much stress they have in their lives. Stress may make IC feel worse, but it doesn't cause the disease. Darlene IC for 41 years!

[Jase]

Stress may make IC feel worse, but it doesn't cause the disease.

Well said, I agree.

[sabbysara]

My new urologist told me something I hadn't heard before. He told me he thinks I'm having the pain because I'm tensing the muscles that wrap around the urethra.

I've spent the last 48 hours focusing on relaxing the muscles around my bladder and urethra and I realized that I ALWAYS have these muscles tense. It takes a conscious effort to relax them. The last 2 days have almost been like I'm doing constant kegals because I realize I'm tense then relax, realize I'm tense then relax...over and over and over. I'm hoping that I will eventually retrain those muscles!

[purpleviolet]

Lots of people have stress and don't get IC. First we have to have some suseptiblility, a weakness. My brother has IC, too, but family before us hasn't. So we share some genetics, but isn't IC more prevalent than it used to be or was it just there in the past but no one mentioned it then? So it is probably more then genetic. A toxin or a bug or a procedure like surgery or some trauma that invades a weak part of our body genetically determined. Stress aggravates it in some, obviously, but I don't think stress alone does it. Something breached the linings or nerves in our bladders. There is something screwy out there that must be invading us who have this susceptability that was triggered by germs, or antibiotics even, or surgery which led to a cascade of inflammatory events. I don't think PFD happens out of the blue. Hand in hand they go.

[ICNDonna]

Not everyone who has IC has pelvic floor dysfunction (PFD) --- I don't. Yes, stress can cause a flare, but I honestly do not believe stress can cause IC.

Donna

[bluegoo06]

In my case, I firmly believe my stress and recent emotional traumas have caused my PFD which causes me to have many IC symptoms. Being that IC and PFD symptoms can overlap a lot, I can say that I know i have PFD and that I probably also have a mild case of IC.

Physical therapy and relaxation has been the only thing that has helped my symptoms. MY PNE nerve is severely compressed and causes all of my tingling symptoms and painful intercourse. My PNE nerve seems to be hypersensitive and my bladder gets swollen after intercourse.

In the case of having PFD, and then getting IC, I still believe my symptoms were caused by traumas, most emotional and physical ( i have had a history of some UTIs in the past). I know others disagree with these statements and by no means do I think IC is the same for everyone nor is it a psychological illness.

[JessicaJoy]

Blue,
I have been diagnosed with IC and what my uro said was more than likely PFD. I have had constipation issues since birth and all throughout infancy and the rest of my life up until now (also an issue with PFD). My Uro believes that I have always had PF issues and an overly taught PF. Also, i was a gymnast for a large part of my childhood, which many researchers now believe CAN BE a contributing factor to short, tight PF and core/abdominal muscles. I have recently begun PF therapy with a Pt and she says that all of my muscles in my "pelvic bowl" are very tense, very tight, very thick and restricted. Also have had an insanely stressful past few years. I am 100% in agreement that stress has contributed to the tense muscles in my PF, which in turn cause inflammation of my bladder. Anyway, just curious to ask you and see if you (or anyone who sees this) has had success with pelvic floor therapy. I have had 8 treatments over the last few weeks and the pain has actually worsened, which my Pt calls the "healing crisis" and says it will pass with more treatments. I hope so, i am sticking with this because i am SO over taking 6 medications a day and still being in pain. I am off all meds completely with the exception of CystoProtek. Sorry for the rambling!

[Linda May]

I agree with donna, I had numerous utis before they discovered i had ic. I was under anesthia and a camera was put in my uretha i dont know what else they did but the pictures of my bladder were very scarred looking.I believe stress can induce a flare. I also believe that muscle pelvic can tence up but the ic is not caused by muscle tention. Maybe its possible for some people with mild ic can get relief with just the relaxation technique, I don,t know just my theory.:angel:

[bluegoo06]

physical therapy has really helped me. I luckily have mild symptoms most of the time. I have been going about 3 months. my symptoms have improved a lot. physical therapy initially cAused symptoms to worsen, but after a bit things got better. this seems to be the case with all Pt. I had back Pt with the same herdel. I suggest you keep with it a little longer. it should help you.

[bob04951]

I would have to say I agree with Donna. I do not believe that stress CAUSES IC, but certainly contributes to symptoms. My hub had symptoms for many years and we led a pretty stress free lifesyle back then. When we had a major stress, his condition got much worse and we sought medical help. It was there for a long time before those major stresses, but became severe after. And symptoms continue to be worse on stressed days, so yeah, it is a factor, but is it a cause? What about small tots who have this? Was their stress simply being born? Not trying to start an arguement, just a thought. Jill, wife of Bob

[aep109]

based on my experience with ic, I have a theory that hormones play a huge role in ic development, predisposition to it and ongoing flares. I think the cortisol that is released during times of stress whether mental or even physical after a surgery throws off our other hormones because they all play off each other.

I have had a few periods of remission over my 12 yeats with it and have always been brought out of it by hormonal fluctations due to either prolonged periods of stress, pregnancy... Andd even in remission I still had mini flares with ovulation. (totally tolerable though) My ic started with my first uti which came about just a few months after a stress period and starting the bc pill.

I think it could be that our hormones are supposed to protect our bladders in some way, they get out of line and then leave us vulnerable to this.

and I think that is part of what makes us so nuts trying to fix it. Who knows how to perfect thei own delicate balance of hormones?!

[Linda May]

I did go through the change 6 or 8 months before my IC but I was also having alot of UTI during that time. For some reason I was craving orange juice 2 months prior to IC diagnosed. I drank 2 gallons a week.
maybe all those factors played a role in my IC? Its such a mystery to us all I wish they would just find a cure. Oh I have alot of stress in my life most of the time but I try real hard not to,:angel:

[Briza]

I think the cortisol that is released during times of stress whether mental or even physical after a surgery throws off our other hormones because they all play off each other.

I read recently somewhere (can't remember where) that the release of cortisol during times of stress also causes acidification of the urine.
hmmmmm....so I wonder what the effects of longterm stress/acidification of the urine are on the bladder.

[needsrelief]

I believe that IC is caused by stress to a certain degree. In my case I developed syptoms after a UTI. All the frequent and urgent urination that goes on during a UTI I believe for some of us can definately stress the pelvic floor cause its working out way more than its use to doing. Its actually acting dysfunctional. I think in my case PFD came first then IC. I think most of my pain comes from PFD. i have very few food irrations. cofee, tea, alcohol. which are diuretics already for people with a normal bladder anyways. I also can tolerate citrus drinks are long as I dont drink a whole lot in a short amont of time. I seem to tolertate multivitamins well too. My bladder spasms alot and I have to strain to urinate even though I hate to do it. only to yield tsp amounts sometimes. even after urinating it feels like I have alot more to go and it feels like a brick is sitting on my bladder. i think those are more so symptoms of PFD. to bad all of the pfd specialist are 2-4 hours drive from me :(

[Briza]

What about small tots who have this? Was their stress simply being born? Not trying to start an arguement, just a thought. Jill, wife of Bob

I think that goes back to there is probably more than one cause.

Bottom line, at this point no one knows! So there is no way any of us can say that stress and resulting muscle tension do not cause IC. Some here are concerned that the possibilty of a stress/tension/muscle related cause would be going back in time and affect progress in improved treatment options for IC as a real medical condition--but just because we don't want it to be so doesn't make it any less a very real possibilty. In addition to other aspects of IC treatment, progress needs to be made in treating the stress/tension/muscle theory as possibile cause and enabling and encouraging patients to look at a multi-modal approach to treatment, where physical therapy, stress reduction and management techniques, appropriate exercise, etc., are stressed just as heavily and along with medical treatment.

I had "classic" IC symptoms and hunner's ulcers. My symptoms were not mild. I was food sensitive. I also developed the sister conditions of PFD and Vulvodynia. I developed IC during a time of intense prolonged stress. Medications helped me, diet helped me, but what put me into remission and has kept me here has been stress reduction, deep meditation, breathing and muscle relaxation techniques, exercise and stretches.

[polygon]

If you have IC or pelvic pain it is more than likely that a person will feel stressed. I would think it would be abnormal to suffer from IC or chronic pain and to not to have some amount of stress about it. However It seems a great leap to then suggest that stress is then a causative factor for IC in the first place.

Muscle tense in response to pain for example an irritated bladder, an entrapped nerve or endemetriosis or pain after surgery etc. I think virtually everyone with pelvic pain will also have tight pelvic floor muscles as you are bound to tense if you are experiencing pain or irritation. I expect there are definitly some people whose pain is caused by stress but there are also lost of physical causes of IC or pelvic pain. I agree that it is important to manage stress when you suffer from IC and meditation and relaxation can help. I also think that stress will make pain worse.

I also think there a lot of myths surrounding the way the brain interacts with the body. For example in popular media you often see the view that thinking positively boosts the immune system stated as a proven fact. It is not, Cell Biologist Barbara Ehrenreich destroys this theory in her book Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America . There are some interesting videos on youtube with her about this.

I definitely agree with you on this. I think prolonged stress and an increase or imbalance of hormones can contribute to symptoms, but cannot cause the disease.
There's so much psuedoscience going around these days on every health subject possible. I am the type of person who believes only in tested, peer-reviewed, theories and research. Science is never "fact", it is always the most likely, most proven, solidified theories we can come up with, those which have not been able to be disproven under scrutiny and experiment.
I have no idea what could cause IC, it seems to me to be a myriad of factors, like genetics, diet, and your body not healing itself properly. It may also be individual with a common factor between most patients.

For me, I have theories of what might have happened, and various things over many years might have compromised my body making it more susceptible. What I do know for me: after much abuse during childhood I was diagnosed with PTSD, I am fearful, stressed out, and hypervigilant all the time. I also have Tourettes syndrome, my dopamine levels/receptors are somehow imbalanced in different parts of my brain and my muscles are always twitching, tense, and spasming. My sleep disorder does not allow my muscles to shut off during sleep, and are unable to properly rest. My muscles, pretty much, are never relaxed, I think causing some of my pain and urgency, especially with the spasms.
I do not think these factors caused my IC however, and I wont have any definitive answers until the research is done. It's a shame though, especially with medications, that mostly everything is subjective. Elmiron is the only drug to be FDA approved, because it is the only one that has gone through randomized, placebo controlled clinical trials. They do open-label testing for other drugs mostly, because it is cruel to have people stay helpless in their pain and symptoms.

Sorry for the wall of text, I just had to let out what I had to say.