Estrogen questions???

[tillysav]

I've had a complete hysto & have to take estrogen. My blood test showed that my estrogen was on the low side & testerone was very low. My doctor switched my estrogen from Premarin to Cenestin to currently Estratest HS. Between "IC getup & go" to "hot flash" I am not getting any sleep and feel like Yuck at work. My Gyno could care less! He does not talk or answer questions. He just has his nurse call me on the phone and change my estrogen without any follow up. He did not want to do blood work to test estrogen levels...I had to insist on the tests!

I just want to ask some questions.:help:

Can a person take progesterone cream if they are already on Estratest HS?

What causes hot flashes?

Is not having enough estrogen or testosterone the cause of hot flashes, bone loss, fatique or other problems?

Sorry if I rambled, I'm feeling confused and desperate for answers. I would be grateful for any help and replies on this subject. Thank you. :bow:

[Kathi]

I know that's it's safer to take estrogen after having a hysto. As far as progesterone goes, it usually flares IC. I'm well past menopause & still get hot flashes once in a while, not every hour like before (awful aren't they). Feel better soon, Kathi:hi:

[MiniPin]

Hello,

I do know that not having enough estoregen can cause your hot flashes.. I'm not sure on the testorone i haven't heard of a women not having enough but i guess you can. I have to much testorone and not enough estoregen.


I had my hysterectomy last year and now taking Premerin 1.25 mg. I still have hot flashes once in a while but i have found different things that helps.

One thing i found with taking my premerin is you HAVE to take it the same time of the day.. Or your hot flashes etc will be back.

I also take it on empty stomach. This may not be good for you.

Also when you have the hotflashes take a warm shower it will cool you off. Not really hot or cold shower. Just the shower it self sometimes makes me feel better.

And wet wash cloth by your bed if you have night sweets.

Good Luck!!

Mel

[Kimberly31]

hmmmmmmmmm those are some good questions.
I am not sure that I have the answers though. I had a hysterectomy @ 20 after having major complications with hemorraging after I delieved my son.
Anyways being as young as I am only 31 the only thing I take for menopause is the Climara Patch 0.1 mg weekly. I have been on it for about 8 years now and I wouldnt change it for anything.
Just make sure you follow up on all this stuff and changes that you are feeling you will eventually find what is right for you just dont give up. The worst thing you could do is give up on it and then suffer with menopause symptoms.
Hang in there let me know if you would like to talk further pm me or email @ kimberlyntexas@sbcglobal.net
:kiss: Kim

[1tuffcookie]

Tilly,

I just posted a reply to one of your other threads too--the one where you talk about side effects from Elmiron and antidepressants.

Hot flashes and bone loss come from lack of estrogen, I know that for sure from what I've read and from personal experience. I'm not sure about fatigue, though. As for testosterone, women don't need very much of it. I've really only read of women taking it because after hysterectomy their sex drive went kaput. Testosterone can help with that, but it also can cause facial hair and other masculine characteristics. I've never taken it because of the side effects.

I've read of other members saying progesterone makes ic flare.

Hope this helps you. :)

[tillysav]

Thanks for your replies. The information I get from you girls is so helpful. I learn more from my girlfriends than the docs. Thank you :kiss:

My doctor took me off the Estratest HS and switched me to Cenestin 0.9. He wants me to take two a day for 1 month and then down to one a day of the Cenestin 0.9. The doc also said he was suprised I required so much estrogen. Oh well, not sure what he meant by that. He's the one who did my hysterectomy. Last night was my first night with out several hot flashes...YES!

Hopefully, the increased estrogen will put me on the right track!

I wonder if there is a connection between a persons size and how much estrogen is needed? I'm small and that bone loss business is scary.

Thanks again for listening and replying.....
And for all of the "Hot" tips! (no pun intended)

I appeciate you more than "9 appreciates!" :grouphug:

[grace 2]

Hi Tilly, I have had a lot of problems hormone wise since my hysterectomy almost 4 years ago. I do know that along with getting hot flashes due to low estrogen levels I also get bad flashes from any change made in my hormones I'm adding back, till my body adjusts. For me it takes about a month. A website that has helped me alot is: hystersisters.com , then go to the "hormone jungle" page. Lots of help at this site. I've had to add back testosterone, but usually it is only small amounts that are added back. I've heard alot of women not able to take the estratest. I use compounded bioidentical hormones. Good luck finding what works for you:) Grace

[Allyson K-A]

When in asking myself many of the same questions listed here, I recently came upon a book I'd highly recommend:
"The Wisdom of Menopause - Creating Physical and Emotional Health and Healing During the Change", by Christiane Northrup, MD (Copryright 2001)

Having had a total hysto. myself, 13 yrs. ago (for Endo) I've been on .625mg. of Premarin for nearly the entire time and done relatively well - only given the increased risk of breast cancer, I'm now starting to look into other possible options (this was precipitated by a temporary/2 month change to "Menest .625 mg" <due to a lower co-pay>, at which time my hormones tested at a level of "0"!)

Anyway, I too am now looking into bio-identical hormone replacement;
additionally, whether or not I would tolerate any of the herbal or "super-food" remedies (like FLAX, eg.)

Does anyone out there have any experience with the food/herbal aspect? :hmm: (I know that "soy" is on our forbidden list, but what about the others?)

If I don't find any specific info. <on this and IC>, I'll probably start to experiment w/the flax* - the benefits are SO GOOD, I'd absolutely hate to pass it up!

*"SuperSource of Lignans, Fiber and Omega-3 Fats (the following is paraphrased):
Benefits include potent anti-cancer effects, a potent source of phytoestrogens <which regulate estradiol levles>, antioxidant benefits/as related to aging and disease; an excellent source of soluable and insoluable fiber <lowers cholesterol/serves to eliminate constipation problems>; and the omega 3 fats, specifically help with deficiencies that result in dry skin, cracked nails, thin and breakable hair (a real problem for me), immune system maifunction, constipation, depression, arthritis and hormone imbalances - additionally, fatty fish are recommended (mackeral, salmon)/or an omega-3 supplement."

Note: For what it's worth, my Mom also had a total hysto. (for fibroids), many years ago and has not experienced any problems whatsoever on the same dose of Premarin - ie, no signs of cancer, etc. She is now 70.

[Allyson K-A]

PS:The book goes into detail about "blood tests and hormone levels" - ie, if not done correctly, the measured results can be inaccurate in as far as subsequent treatment is concerned(!). 'Talks about "bound and unbound hormones"...

Another reliable method for determining hormone levels: salivary testing.

[sami4]

The term estrogen covers three types: E1, E2, and E3. Estradiol, estrone, and estriol. Usually when people say estrogen they mean estradiol. Estrogen is also a term used for synthetic estrogen which is Premarin. Bioidentical estrogen is Estradiol and is considered to be the least risky.
Also the manner in which you take estradiol effects the body; if taken orally it causes more estrone metabolites to occur, if taken as a patch or cream it causes less and is considered to be the safest route.
Estrogen blood levels affect bladder health. Dr. Elizabeth Vliett here in Arizona insists on a blood level of not less than 100 and preferable 100-150 for bladder health. Many women need vaginal cream estrogen in addition to oral or patch to keep vagina and bladder healthy.
Dr. Viett in her book, Screaming to be Heard, has a whole chapter on hormones and IC. This book is invaluable to any IC or fibromyaligia person.
She also says bladders are irritated by progesterone and you should take the least possible amount if you have a uterus.
Hot flashes can be due to low estrogen but also to other things. If your blood level is good, then it could be something else.
It sounds like you need another physician as this person is not interested in you or perhaps is kind of dumb and dont know what to do so they ignore you. Get another physician, I had to go to four before I found a practice that was good with hormones. Also Premarin can be an irritant to the bladder also as it contains other things as well as estradiol. Premarin is made from horse urine and is pretty strong compared to natural estradiol
Natural estradiol is in oral form Estrace or generic Estradiol, Vivelle dot patches, or compounded creams. Congugated estrogens are Premarin, Cenestin, Estratab which are not bioidentical.
Progesterones are not all alike either. They can be from the yam family or the testosterone family or the newer ones that are totally synthetic like in Yasmin birth control pill. The OTC progesterone creams probably come from yams or soy and are not regulated as to dose. You can get a huge dose of topical progesterone in some of those creams and I would not use them if I were you. Because it is OTC they are not regulated.
Testosterone is usually low in menopausal women and some recent research showed that when given with estradiol it seemed to make the estrogen less risky. Testosterone is often helpful in incontinence and helps with mood and muscles (bladder is a muscle).
If it were me I would fire your doctor, you wouldnt put up with that treatment from any other vendor and he is getting paid well to listen to you.
Sammie

[tigger_gal]

I just had a total hysterctomy on the 28th of November... Between hot flashes and no sleep I was wore out and quick to snap at people. I haven't been for my 6 week check up.. but, a friend on mine told be to try Black Cohosh, I have to admit it is helping.

[jerseygirl]

Hi Tilly,
For some really good information on hormone testing check out www.salivatest.com and for info on bioidentical hormones check out http://www.johnleemd.com. Both Dr. Lee and Dr. Zava (zrt labs) are pioneers in this field. I was tested via my Dr. and worked with a compounding pharmacist who put me on progesterone and testosterone. It has been wonderful! I was bleeding so heavily over the summer with my periods that I became anemic. Low progesterone and/or unopposed estrogen was the cause. Once I started on it my periods are much more normal. I have had hot flashes before and from my understanding they are caused by changing levels of estrogen..not just low or no estrogen. Progesterone also helps your body uptake estrogen more effieciently...so many women who are taking estrogen can reduce their estrogen dosage because your body will use it more efficiently when taking progesterone. Be careful not to confuse bioidentical progesterone with progestin...which it often is. Progestin is a manufactered hormone made to mimic progesterone. But it is bad stuff and one of the reasons why the WHI designed to study hormone replacement was canceled http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/whi/estro_pro.htm).
I've seen several negative comments on this forum in regards to progesterone but I am not sure if they are talking about bioidential progesterone or progestin. The over the counter progesterone is not trustworthy since often the true quantity/quality of the progesterone in not listed on bottle so you don't know what you are getting. You are better off working with a compouding pharmacist (checkout http://www.iacprx.org/ to find one in your area) and your doctor.

[sami4]

Studies have shown that black cohash does have a very slight estrogenic effect, but it is very slight.
Dr. Lee/Progesterone theories may have worked for a few of you, but for most of us and for most authorities on hormones and IC their findings are just the opposite, that progesterone or progestins irritate IC and the bladder. If you feel good before a period and during the first few days when progesterone is highest then have at it. If you feel lousy, then proceed with caution.
As for Dr. Lee, most of his theorys have not been able to be duplicated with research. When I was nursing in a gynecology practice and it was somewhat of a fad a lot of women were asking about it. After a few months of trial, things went wrong and all of them went off of it. You might also check out the www.rhythmicliving board which is a group of former T.S. Wiley protocol users which use high doses of estrogen and progesterone. Most of them got progesterone toxic. Estrogen leaves the body fairly fast, but progesterone can build up and be harder to excrete.
Dont mess with this stuff on your own, go to a physician and be monitiored with blood tests and common sense.
As the lady said,"OTC progesterone cream is not regulated and you can get a mega dose of it."
Personally, I react badly to either progesterone (yam derived) or progestins except for small doses of testosterone derived progestin. Everyone is different but I had a horrid case of Vulvodynia brought on by taking 200 mg Prometrium for 10 days before a period. It totally blocked my estrogen and I bled like someone had cut an artery. Horrid clots, pain and so on.
Everyone is different and reacts differently to progesterone which is a strong hormone. I now use a progestin medicated IUD that delivers a tiny, tiny dose into the uterine lining only and not systemic. This has worked for me and does not block my estrogen or upset my IC.
Sammie

[Cheries]

This is some great info on hormones. I went to see Dr. Vliet and she gave me the climera .0375 patch. I went in to see a new gyno and he told me I was a candidate for uterine cancer if I take estorgen unopposed. He suggested I have my uterus removed (I also have fibroids). I am not so sure I want to do this. Nor do I want to take progestins due to the info I have gotten in the past. I can't afford to go to Dr. vliet again as she is so expensive. My vulvodynia is better with the climera, the only side effect is that I have gained 20 pounds on it! Ahhh! I do not have as many bladder infections though or as much yeast problems. (although I am not 100% better.) Do you all think that this gyno (who specializes in sexual dysfunction and ic and vulvadynia by the way) knows what he's talking about? It sort of scared me that he was so apt to want to remove my uterus. I do know it isn't good to take out the ovaries. I do get a lot of shooting stabbing pain in my cervix that he said could be helped by a hysto. He also said that my uterus was very sensitive when palpated and that some of my pain could be coming from there. Hmmmm, I think I know the difference between uterine pain and bladder pain, having IC for over 10 years. He also said that he could do the surgery laposcopically and that it is the new way to go.

[sami4a]

The Rhythmic Living site is made of former Wiley protocol users who have had very bad reactions to her program. Since it is made of many women, each telling their own experiences, I highly doubt they all are Wiley Stalkers.
What Suzanne Sommers is or is not on does not make it a prudent idea or even sensible. Wiley did not "invent" cycling hormones, cycling estrogen and then progesterone has been around for a very long time.
Wilely's ideas, and I say ideas because there are no known double blind studies on them at this time done with an adequate numerical sample are just that--ideas. Dr. Moldwin would disagree with your statement,'No such thing as progesterone toxicity" as he feels a lot of IC problems are due to being allergic to progesterone.
This board is not a Wiley protocol argument board. If you are pro Wiley and her mega dose ideas, fine. I think any prudent medical person or lay person would come to the conclusion that to err on the side of conservative is best. Some of the pharmacies and physicians that at one time were RX her protocol to satisfy their clients have now stopped due to the hormone problems this protocol caused with the clients. I suppose that is also a great conspiracy made up of liars and stalkers?
You also might look up some of the so called studies she cites in her book and read them in toto, you will find they not only dont support her hypothesis, many of them dont even apply.
This is a board for individuals who are suffering for IC, please dont bore us with the Wiley vs the World thing-nobody cares!
Sammie

[Katrina]

Actually, there is no such thing thing as progesterone toxicity.
I disagree and know of some experts doctors that do as well as well some patients of this board that have had such a diagnosis.