Narcotics don't help bladder pain: anyone else??

[BreathDeeply]

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced what I have with narcotics for bladder pain. I find that both Vicodin (7.5 mg w/750 mg of acetometaphin) and hydrocodone (Lortab 5mg/325) do not help my bladder pain. I have percocet 7.5/500 on hand but have not taken it because it is too strong.

I already had these pain killers for chronic back pain after a failed surgery - before my bladder pain started about 1 year ago. I had slowly started to discontinue them because they no longer really helped the back pain: it has become chronic pain and narcotics just drug me up but I still have pain, so they don't help me function any better. I now lie down to get relief, since being off my feet helps.

My bladder pain is relieved by urinating. My normal IC state is bladder pain only - no urethral or other tissue pain. The length of time before the pain comes back depends on if I am in a flare, not in a flare, or my "in-between" state (hard to describe, but thats what I call it).

Even when I have been in a flare, when I was hurting all the time, with uretral and surroundingtissue pain - the narcotics did not help. I just had to wait for it to pass.

Right now, I pee, then the pain slowly builds back up in about 30 minutes - one hour. Then i pee and get relief.

Has anyone else found this to be true for you?
I think I am starting to see somewhere in my research that narcotics really aren't effective for bladder pain. But then I see many on this site who use them and are upset with their drs. if they won't Rx narcotics for them. I see a new urologist in 2 weeks, and I want to come armed with as much info as possible.
Thanks to all,

[Claredale]

I started on Lortab 7.5, then went to 10 mgs when my IC became severe. I had 24/7 pain and the Lortab as long as I took it when I could feel the pain building was always able to manage my pain. I have been on 10 mg Lortab about 8 years now. I am sorry your pain meds aren't working. I tried Davocet and Percoset both, but I had bad side effects with them. I have dealt with both bladder and urethral pain with my IC. These days, I just take the Lortab mostly at night. There are days here and there that I may need one in the morning. Today, for some reason I am dealing with bladder pain and spasms, so I took a Lortab that I keep in my purse for emergencies. If I wouldn't have taken it, I would have been in misery by the time I got off work.

Have you tried B&O suppositories? They are Belladonna & Opium suppositories that you insert rectally. I was first given them in the ER after a horrible flare. sd as Donna calls the "magic bullet". It has never made me feel like I had even taken any meds, but eased my pain within 15 minutes or so. Prior to my having my interstim, I used them 4 times a day on top of my Lortab just so I could function. It was nice not feeling drugged. I don't know that they are that way with everyone, but the people I know that take them say that they are very easy to function on. My doctor still prescribes them for me just in case I have any problems at night with pain. He knows that the faster my pain meds kick in, the better I can sleep.

[Briza]

Vicodin/hydrocodone doesn't work AT ALL for me. But Tylenol 3 works fantastic and so does a low dose of Dilaudid, both without side effects. Pyridium also gives me a lot of relief, as does it OTC versions Uristat and AZO Standard. I hope you find something that works for you!Best wishes:) There are many other pain meds besides Vicodin that may work for you. Tylenol 3 is supposed to be a weaker pain med than Vicodin, but it works for me where Vicodin doesn't work at all.

[amaranthe]

I have had pain meds that didnt work before (Ultram, Darvacet, Lortab 5/325
etc.) So, I can definately relate to your pain and frustration. Fortunately, my Dr. and I stuck with it and found something that DID work. Dilaudid works for me, so does Percecet, B and O supp, Morphine, and several other things. Right now I take MS Contin and Percecet and they are my life line. If I didnt have them, I would not be able to live a normal life.

You said that you thought you saw something in your research that said that pain meds werent effective for bladder pain, but then mentioned that you noticed alot of people here use them and get upset if their Drs wont r/x them. We use them because they DO help our pain. Lots of us hurt for years and went thru many DRs before we finally found one to help us and believe that we were hurting, so we dont take our pain mgmt lightly at all. I realize that the pain meds didnt help you so far, but please dont think that they CANT help you just because they didnt so far. But, even if they never help you at all, remember that we are all very different and dont all have the same reactions to things. But, that doesnt mean others arent helped enormously by pain meds. (BTW, I havent ever read anything that said pain meds werent effective for bladder pain. Could you please put the link here for where you read that? Thanks!

I hope you find something that works for you. Please keep trying different meds.

[hdb1982]

I agree with amaranthe on this one. I for one hate to take meds so if they were not beneficial for me, I would not take them. There are times I need more than other but I always take 1-2 a day. It got to the point with me that Lortab were like tic tacs and I was switched to Percocet. It has been my miracle drug. I haven't felt this close to normal since dx. This will be the closest to that I will ever feel most likely.
I am also curious to your research that they aren't effective for bladder pain. I have done a lot of research and never read this. I have read that oxycodone is better for organ pain than hydrocodone but that is it. It also depends on the "type" of pain you have as to which med will work, narcotic or non narcotic. If your pain is nerve related drugs like Lyrica and Neurontin will be most beneficial, often in conjunction with pain meds. You just need to go through a trial and error process to see what works best. The thought that bladder pain isn't helped by narcotics sounds obsured to me, because I have bladder pain and it helps. Narcotics work by medicating the pain sensors in your brain, regardless if they are connected to your bladder, your toes or your teeth. I think Methadone works on different sensors than the others but for the most part they work the same.
Anyone in pain for a long enough time will get upset when it is not being properly addressed. Just as if you were depressed and denied antidepressants or if you suffer from insomnia and were denied sleep aids. Drs can't "see" the depression or insomnia like they can say a broken arm but it doesn't mean the suffering isn't real. It is very infuriating to not feel validated.

You said you haven't tried the Percocet b/c it is too strong. How do you know if you haven't tried it? It may have made you feel a certain way after your back surgery but that doesn't mean it will do the same for this. Chronic pain pts don't get high from their meds, for the most part. Any research into addiction will tell you this. Because when the pain sensors in the brain are firing off, all of the narcotic in the med is used for this purpose, to calm those feelings. There isn't anything left to "go to the parts of the brain that create a high." That is the best way I can describe what I have read.
I hope you have a dr who is willing to go through this process and find a med that hurts you because of this. I can deal with peeing a lot. I can adjust my life to that. I have yet to figure out how to adjust being in horrible pain. Maybe the weaker meds would be better for you. Like someone said, they do better on Tylenol 3 which is one of the weaker meds. Or Ultram or Tramadol, which are non narcotic. Your pain may be spasm related so an antispasmodic, like Pyridium would be the best help or even a muscle relaxer like Flexaril or a med like Valium. I have used them all. I feel the best now taking Percocet, Elmiron(not feeling benefits yet on month 4), Xanax, Miralax, Valium before sex and inserted vaginally, and Ambien as needed. Getting good sleep is crucial to me. When I am deprived of sleep my symptoms intensify 10 fold. Everything is worse when you haven't slept more than 10 hours in a week. Also getting my bowels in order. Constipation is murder on an IC patient. The fullness of the bowels pressing on the bladder increase pain as well.

I hope you find relief. The beginning of the treatment is the worst, in my opinion. You are scared and confused and often in pain. After months of failed attempts with different treatments, the frustration and despair sets in. You get to the point where you will do anything to get better. I was so bad at one point I told my dr that if he came to me and said "Heather, we have a surgery to sure IC but the only thing is you have to be completely awake while we cut into your abdomen" I would have signed up. NO JOKE. I was in that much pain. Let us know how everything goes and if you find anything to help. We are always here to lend support and help in any way we can.~Heather

[ICNDonna]

You might want to talk with your doctor about the possibility you may be having bladder spasms. If that's the case, then a smooth muscle antispasmodic might help more than pain meds.

Donna

[elamar]

Have you tried the basics like urelle or prosed? These are meant to help with burning in your bladder. I use utira-c which is the generic of urelle. Are you sticking with keeping your diet bland? I know if I eat anything acidic, I start with the "bladder burn". I also drink club soda once a day. It really soothes the burn for me, but some people can't have any carbonation. It doesn't bother me. It is easier than the baking soda remedy. Hope this helps.

[Claredale]

Like Elamar said, Prosed DS, has been the major reason I have been able to decrease my pain meds to just at night. It's another med that doesn't work for everyone, but for me, I call it my miracle drug. It took away my burning feeling which is why I was presribed it. But now, I can hold my urine for hours now, when before if I held it even a few minutes too long I was going to have spasms. My normal amount of voiding now is never over 10 times a day (which includes my nights!) and my urine output is in my opinion very normal. For years, I was happy to void a couple of ounces. Now I void on average at least 8 ounces. I have quit measuring it, but for a while I was facinated about it because it had been so long since I experienced that. Also now when I feel the need to void, I can just go to the bathroom and go without even thinking about it!

I still follow my diet and avoid my other triggers such as stress and pushing my body too hard. As long as everything stays in line, my day is almost a normal day!

So for me, knowing where I used to be with this disease to where I am now is more than I can ask for. I am not in remission, but probably as close as I will get to it until they find a cure. When I was first diagnosed, I really didn't have pain unless I was flaring. Which is when my doctor gave me pain meds to deal with the pain.

I am interested in knowing where you found information saying that pain meds can't treat bladder pain. Like everyone is saying, not all pain meds work the same for everyone and somethngs they even need other meds in combination to help with your symptoms. When I was in my major flares. I took my pain meds, used a muscle relaxer as well as meds to help with anxiety. And like Heather said, it so soooo important to get your sleep, otherwise, even slight pain is harder to manage. All of which worked together to calm everything down so that the pain meds were the most effective. It is also very important to take your pain meds when you feel the pain building up because if you wait until your pain level is not manageable, then it is hard for the pain meds to work.


Hugs, T83

[BreathDeeply]

Let me aplogize to everyone for my error in writing. I did not mean to imply that pain meds don't help people and upon re-reading I realize thats what is sounded like.

Believe me, i know that people need pain meds and that drs. won't rx them for people when they are huring. I have lived with back pain my entire life and have been down that road. I know what its like to hurt on a scale of 10+ and have an idiot dr. not give me what i needed.

I am so so sorry for that error and for offending people.

The bladder pain is a stumper for me because it does not "show up" like pain I am familiar with. And I thought I was already armed with the pain meds that would help. I live alone and have had close calls with falling and being in a complete stupor from narcotics, but still have the pain.

I have been researching IC for about a year - since onset - and don't know where I saw the narcotics-not-always-effective- for- bladder pain issue. Clearly there are many people that do get relief.

Ladies (and gentlemen), forgive the mistake. It was an honest one.

[Briza]

BreathDeeply, don't worry, you didn't offend anyone!! :) Anyone's questions regarding that are probably more in line with the fact that most of us have been at sometime or another offended by DOCTORS not belieivng or treating our pain, not you! We are just concerned that YOU get the proper treatment. Have you talked to your dr or pharmacist to see if you can split your percocet tabs? If they are able to be split in half (not all meds are) then that might help you so that you can get used to any initial side effects. Even with Tylenol 3 I had to split my tabs in half the first few times I took it, otherwise it would knock me out. Once I had taken it that way for a while that side effect went away and very quickly I could take it without any side effects at all.
You didn't say anything wrong!
Best wishes, Bri :)

[amaranthe]

Thank you for clarifying. I am glad that I just misunderstood. I apologize if MY own post didnt come out right too. I must confess, when I read your post initially, I DID think maybe you thought pain meds didnt work for anyone or something since they didnt work for you. I apologize if my post came across as defensive or anything. Please accept my apology too! :kissing: :grouphug: I am glad it was all just a misunderstanding! I know sometimes things "read" different that they would sound if we were saying them to someone and explaining them in person. It is just part of the downside of the internet. I have written stuff too that came out all wrong! I think we all have. But thank you again for clarifying what you meant! No worries, 'kay?

I do hope you find something that works for you. I am not sure why the meds you have taken havent worked so far, but I DO think there is something out there for you that will work. You may have neuropathic pain, which often responds better to neuropathic meds. Or, maybe it is the acidity in your bladder causing the pain on filling, and taking a 24 med that is an acid neutralizer would help. :confused: Lots of patients are helped by antihistines or even steroids like Prednisone. Others get huge relief from antispasmodics like Pyridium. But, i think for most of us, it takes a combo of several different kinds of meds before we finally get relief, and finding the right combo is what takes so long. (At least that's the way it was with me!) Yes, pain meds help, but I also have to take alot of other stuff too and the whole combo of all of them together is what helps me.

But, please dont give up! Maybe it is time for a 2nd opinion or a new Dr with fresh ideas and a fresh perspective on your case.

Again, thanks for clarifying things! And sorry I misunderstood. Hope you find something that works soon!

[Briza]

Right now, I pee, then the pain slowly builds back up in about 30 minutes - one hour. Then i pee and get relief....
Thanks to all,

Like Donna mentioned, it sounds like you might need some type of antispasmodic, or muscle relaxer. Low dose valium works well for many people like a muscle relaxer, and it seems to do so with fewer or no side effects than some muscle relaxers. That could be something to talk to your doctor about.... low dose Elavil is also a med worth talking to your dr about...it helps alot of us with nerve pain and also with frequency, urgency, and sleeping thru the night, it can have a relaxing effect on the bladder....like amaranthe mentioned, sometimes it takes a combo of meds, with or without a pain med, to treat our symptoms. Also, it is always a good idea to keep yourself well-hydrated...drinking lots of water seems to be key for many of us.
Another thing you mentioned is that Vicodin/Lortab don't work so well for you anymore...after taking it for sometime for your back pain your body might have built up a tolerance to its pain relieving abilities. So a change in pain meds could work for that reason...even if it is not a stronger one like percocet, just a different one.

So to sum up a few ideas on some meds you could discuss with your doctor:

Low dose valium or muscle relaxers, or some type of antipasmodic
Pyrdium, Pyridium Plus, Urelle, or Prosed (all can help with bladder pain and burning, and some of them I believe contain an antispasmodic)
Elavil, Tofranil, and/or Atarax
A different, but not necessarily stronger, pain med (Ultram, Ultracet, Tylenol 3, Darvocet, low dose Dilaudid)

Anyway, just some ideas...hope any of it is helpful!:)

[mwohlers]

What I wanted to say is that I too have had trouble with Vicoden and Percocet. I am pregnant and so had to go off my meds. Happy to be pregnant, but sad to be off meds. I need pain managment more and I can't take the one that used to work which was ultram/tramdol during pregnancy. I don't think that one was as strong as the vicoden or percocet, but that worked and the narcotics don't for me. I know that the narcotics work really well for some, but didn't for me so you are not alone there. The process for me to get to the combination that worked for me took a long time, but I kept on it. There are so many options out there and we are all so blasted different in our symtoms and treatments that work. Good luck. This is a really hard thing, but you will get there! :angel: