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BuffyFan
07-09-2008, 10:05 AM
Well....I have finally met Mr. Right & we are trying to get pregnant!! I must say, that trying all the time does make my bladder spazz. I'll deal with it though. We have been using KY to make things easier, but if I don't get pregnant this month, than I am going to buy some Pre Seed for next month when we try. That stuff doesn't harm sperm. I'm hoping all has worked even using the KY...as I could be pregnant sitting here typing this out (lol)!! I will let you all know in about a week & a half...I just keep praying it'll happen if it hasn't already :pray:

Have any of you gotten pregnant using KY or anything like it?? I know that IC can be painful during sex & just a little bit of that stuff makes it so much better!!

Alisha xoxo :smile tee

P.S. I wanted to add...I flare during ovulation, so that even makes it more painful :( I would take the pain in order to create a healthy baby though!!

LIANA55
07-11-2008, 03:14 AM
The only possible way for my husband and I to have sex is to use KY. LOTS OF IT! And I am pregnant! So keep at it and I'm sure it will happen!! How great if you are pregnant right now! My husband knew within 2 days of conception! So maybe your boyfriend is right! :smile tee
Good luck and keep us updated!!!!

BuffyFan
07-11-2008, 03:45 AM
The only possible way for my husband and I to have sex is to use KY. LOTS OF IT! And I am pregnant! So keep at it and I'm sure it will happen!! How great if you are pregnant right now! My husband knew within 2 days of conception! So maybe your boyfriend is right! :smile tee
Good luck and keep us updated!!!!

Thanks for your kind words hun & congrats on being pregnant :woohoo: I was just so worried that the KY would harm the sperm :confused: They did a pregnancy test on me yesterday & of course it came back negative...I am not even due for my period till about June 22nd, so it's still too early to tell :loco: I will keep you all posted, but if hasn't happened, we are defo gonna keep trying!! Huggies to you all...

Alisha xoxo :smile tee

sandymarie
07-11-2008, 05:44 AM
"I "m waiting to hear the good news soon. Please do keep us posted. I did better with the ic when I was pregnant, but that was many years ago,. I got an email from a really good friend the other that had a news report that says that a mother's brain reacts to her baby's smiling. Maybe I need to adopt. LOL NOt really , I have grandchildren and I love to see them and they always make me smile. Hang in there, it's like a diet for me, If I don't think about it , then it is not so hard to go there. When I think about the word diet, I automatically want to eat more.:loco:

JJ

traceann
07-11-2008, 06:42 AM
Have you been using ovulation prediction kits?? That's what I did - we'd been trying for 3 months with no luck before I bought the kit, then it was the 2nd month using them that we conceived! It made things really easy - and especially for us ICers, you can pinpoint ovulation pretty much and it saves a lot of um, "wear and tear" so to speak, lol ;)

Charisse
07-11-2008, 08:19 AM
I hope this is your month but if not I second the ovulation predictor kits :)

prestwood16
07-11-2008, 08:47 AM
I hope this is your month but if not I second the ovulation predictor kits :)

I just found out the week from a lady that is my mom's age that the best lubricant for sex (and this was from her Gyno and i go to the same one and she isn't a Quack) is............Virgin Olive Oil?????? This lady has vulvodynia severe vulvodynia and Dr matthews said the water based lubricants like KY dry you out, but Virgin Olive Oil stays moist and actually helps moisturize the vagina as well!
Has anyone else heard of these? I'm not against trying it, because I know it would probably my gently on the skin. But, the sex part will still cause my bladder to flare!!
Let me know if you have tried Virgin Olive Oil as a lubricant verses the water based lubricants!!!!!:confused:

traceann
07-11-2008, 04:15 PM
I've heard a few different variations on that sort of thing for lubricant! I've heard veg oil, and shortening for those types of troubles. I personally would be afraid since it might disrupt the vaginal atmosphere and it's self-cleaning capabilities, but I know I've read (and it was around here) that some have had great luck with that sort of thing. I hope some will chime in who have more info than I do on it, but I just wanted to say I've heard of it! ;)

BuffyFan
07-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Have you been using ovulation prediction kits?? That's what I did - we'd been trying for 3 months with no luck before I bought the kit, then it was the 2nd month using them that we conceived! It made things really easy - and especially for us ICers, you can pinpoint ovulation pretty much and it saves a lot of um, "wear and tear" so to speak, lol ;)

This is just our first month of trying actually & even before this, I could always tell when I ovulated. Now with the IC, I flare when I ovulate too :cussing: But if it hasn't happened already, then I'll pick up the ovulation test kits for next month. Maybe buy that Pre Seed as well (just in case the KY hinders anything). But in one of my replies, she said that she got pregnant using KY :woohoo: Guess it all depends on the person & just how strong those spermies are :lmao:

traceann
07-11-2008, 04:32 PM
LOL, I know what you mean on knowing when you ov - I had it down to a science, then we started trying and things went haywire, lol!!! My normal signs seemed to disappear, it was crazy! LOL :biglaugh: But then, when I got the kit, as soon as you test positive, you usually ovulate 12-36 hours later. It really helped me get it even more "pinpointed" for lack of a better term, lol!

I've read that yep, Preseed can help because of the potential damage to the sperm etc from other lubes, but you never know. I guess it's a toss-up really, I was going to get some if I'd hadn't had any luck, mostly because of being older etc, and I wanted to put everything in my favor that I could, but as it turned out, didn't need it, lol. But there are many who swear by it, but I am sure just as many who got pregnant using K-Y etc, so it's really kind of hard to tell...not like you can compare it really, lol!!! :biglaugh:

BuffyFan
07-12-2008, 04:14 AM
LOL, I know what you mean on knowing when you ov - I had it down to a science, then we started trying and things went haywire, lol!!! My normal signs seemed to disappear, it was crazy! LOL :biglaugh: But then, when I got the kit, as soon as you test positive, you usually ovulate 12-36 hours later. It really helped me get it even more "pinpointed" for lack of a better term, lol!

I've read that yep, Preseed can help because of the potential damage to the sperm etc from other lubes, but you never know. I guess it's a toss-up really, I was going to get some if I'd hadn't had any luck, mostly because of being older etc, and I wanted to put everything in my favor that I could, but as it turned out, didn't need it, lol. But there are many who swear by it, but I am sure just as many who got pregnant using K-Y etc, so it's really kind of hard to tell...not like you can compare it really, lol!!! :biglaugh:


I know what you mean...you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what will work & what hinders things :loco: I guess just let nature take its course. Although you are right with the ovulation kits, they can only help :)

JenAZ07
07-14-2008, 04:48 PM
They say the same thing about saliva....kills sperm.....but I have been pg twice (opps!) and I know there was some oral going on both times. Of course that was before IC.

We had preseed available to use this cycle (got some since I am on Clomid and that is known to dry you up down there), but we didn't need it. I use a fertility monitor and OPKs....and then did the deed three times during my fertile window. Couldn't handle the pain any more than that. I think the Clomid either made me flare really bad...or caused the worst ovulation pains ever (2nd day of lots of pain). Who knows. Hopefully I will get pg this cycle and all this pain will be worth it. Well that.....and hopefully I go into remission for the next 9 months!!

Good luck!! ~*~*~Babydust~*~*~

BuffyFan
07-16-2008, 03:27 AM
They say the same thing about saliva....kills sperm.....but I have been pg twice (opps!) and I know there was some oral going on both times. Of course that was before IC.

We had preseed available to use this cycle (got some since I am on Clomid and that is known to dry you up down there), but we didn't need it. I use a fertility monitor and OPKs....and then did the deed three times during my fertile window. Couldn't handle the pain any more than that. I think the Clomid either made me flare really bad...or caused the worst ovulation pains ever (2nd day of lots of pain). Who knows. Hopefully I will get pg this cycle and all this pain will be worth it. Well that.....and hopefully I go into remission for the next 9 months!!

Good luck!! ~*~*~Babydust~*~*~

Good luck Jen...hoping you do end up pregnant this cycle :pray:

JenAZ07
07-19-2008, 11:08 AM
Thanks Alisha. I don't give us much hope for this cycle......Drs gave me a 1-5% chance of getting pg on my own....without using invasive fertility treatments -- IUI, IVF, etc. So we will see.

How about you? Did you test or did your period (AF) arrive? Hopefully one of us gets pg this cycle!!

BuffyFan
07-19-2008, 04:33 PM
Thanks Alisha. I don't give us much hope for this cycle......Drs gave me a 1-5% chance of getting pg on my own....without using invasive fertility treatments -- IUI, IVF, etc. So we will see.

How about you? Did you test or did your period (AF) arrive? Hopefully one of us gets pg this cycle!!

I'm sorry to hear about your chances this month of getting pg, but don't lose hope sweetie...it'll happen!! I wish you much luck this time round, but if it doesn't happen now, it will at some point & I will keep you in my thoughts & prayers :pray: Sending you lots of baby dust too :smile tee

As for me...I've had freaking cramps for a week now. Thinking my period is going to begin any second & nothing :loco: I keep saying that I'm going to get it though...I'll wait a few more days till I test. My OB wants me to wait till the beginning of August to test...so I don't get a positive & worry about having an early miscarriage like I did in 2006. But hey, if it doesn't start soon, I know I won't be able to wait that long till I pee on a stick :biglaugh: I'll let you lnow what happens...if anything & please let me know the same for you :wink:

Alisha xoxo :grouphug:

BuffyFan
07-23-2008, 05:32 AM
It seems as if I have started my period this morning :( Guess we'll have to try again. Just wanted to let you all know.

Alisha xoxo

Krisi
07-23-2008, 09:19 AM
I am sorry! I hope it works out next time! Are you charting or using OPKs? Good Luck!

BuffyFan
07-23-2008, 11:44 AM
I am sorry! I hope it works out next time! Are you charting or using OPKs? Good Luck!

I was just writing to a friend, that I was worried it didn't happen last cycle due to the fact that I took one birth control pill. Now maybe (like the doc said) the one pill wouldn't affect anything, but it was still in the back of my mind. I had begun the pill to help keep me down from flaring during ovulation, but then the pill flared me, so I only took the one & stopped. That was on the first day of my last cycle.
And my boyfriend & I just noticed that we hit some pretty good dates on the calendar, so we didn't start out trying, but ended up wanting to I suppose (lol)!!
This month I am going to get some of the PreSeed...in case I need the lube. That way I won't have the fear that it is harming sperm like KY might. We are also getting the ovulation test kits. Although I can usually tell pretty good when I ovulate, we want to be sure this time :)

Krisi
07-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Well good luck on your next month! Your doctor is right though in that the one birth control pill wouldn't have an effect. Sometimes it takes more than one month, etc. Even if you have sex around the days of ovulation it doesn't guarantee anything, I mean if you look at the percentages the two days before are like 28% and 26%. I hope everything works out next month, just don't get too discouraged if it takes a little longer.

We are sort of trying. I am checking my temps and CF. I have long cycles though so the OPKs really are that good in the since I would have to pay for more than one month. I just stopped BC in May. I have only had one cycle and the next one won't be for awhile. That is where the charting of the temps helps because if I see that I have ovulated I kind of at least know when to expect my AF or test. Otherwise I would seriously have no idea at all about what is going on or if I even ovulate.

You should check out fertilityfriend.com. They have a free charting program and TTC course. Hope the baby dust comes your way this next cycle!

Krisi :)

JenAZ07
07-23-2008, 04:53 PM
Alisha-- I am so sorry hon. I was really hoping this was your month. I think the Pre-seed is a really good idea. I don't usually need lub, but if I do that is what we grab...well when we are trying.

Charting or using ovulation predictor kits (OPK) are a really good idea. You can get the Answer brand at CVS or other drug stores and I believe there are 20 in there for about $17. You can find them on-line for much cheaper than that though. They say that a couple only has a 20% shot of getting pg each cycle....if you use fertility monitors, chart or use OPKs, you can increase that percentage.

Good luck! *~*~*~*~BabyDust*~*~*~*

BuffyFan
07-24-2008, 02:28 AM
Alisha-- I am so sorry hon. I was really hoping this was your month. I think the Pre-seed is a really good idea. I don't usually need lub, but if I do that is what we grab...well when we are trying.

Charting or using ovulation predictor kits (OPK) are a really good idea. You can get the Answer brand at CVS or other drug stores and I believe there are 20 in there for about $17. You can find them on-line for much cheaper than that though. They say that a couple only has a 20% shot of getting pg each cycle....if you use fertility monitors, chart or use OPKs, you can increase that percentage.

Good luck! *~*~*~*~BabyDust*~*~*~*


Thanks hun :) Actually, it is the Answer brand ovulation kits that I am going to buy. I found them at Walmart. They have a pack of 7 tests...those look like pregnancy tests & then they have a pack of like 20, that look more like test strips I suppose. Is one better than the other??

JenAZ07
07-24-2008, 11:01 AM
No, but the midstream ones (look like pregnancy tests) are more portable. The strips you have to pee in a cup and then put the strip in there. You are supposed to test in the afternoon/evening time period so depending on if you work outside the home....you may need to get the midstreams. Or if you get home at a reasonable hour...you could just use the strips. I used the Answer brand as well, but used the strips as I could get so many more for the money. But then I was using them as a back-up because I also had a Clear Blue Easy fertility monitor that I got off ebay back in Dec. I have been monitoring my cycles since Jan. (even though not trying) b/c I don't ovulate every month.

So...which ever is easiest for you. If you have long unpredictable cycles....I would go w/the strips b/c you may need a whole box for just one cycle. Mine are pretty predictable....so one box lasted me two cycles. (The strips are only good for 30 days...according to the box......but I was able to get 2 cycles out of that..and had plenty left over.) If you have the money, I would check out the Clear Blue fertility monitors (CBE) on ebay. The CBEis more expensive, but it tells you the days your fertility is high and could potentially get pg on those days if you have sex...as well as your peak days (ie the day you get your LH surge right before ovulation) the days you really want to have sex. B/c of the IC and PFD...having sex everyday was just out of the question....but knowing when my fertility was high and peak allowed us to just have sex a couple key times versus having to have sex every day or every other day. I used both (Answer and CBE) this past month and we were successful. :wink:

BuffyFan
07-25-2008, 02:40 AM
No, but the midstream ones (look like pregnancy tests) are more portable. The strips you have to pee in a cup and then put the strip in there. You are supposed to test in the afternoon/evening time period so depending on if you work outside the home....you may need to get the midstreams. Or if you get home at a reasonable hour...you could just use the strips. I used the Answer brand as well, but used the strips as I could get so many more for the money. But then I was using them as a back-up because I also had a Clear Blue Easy fertility monitor that I got off ebay back in Dec. I have been monitoring my cycles since Jan. (even though not trying) b/c I don't ovulate every month.

So...which ever is easiest for you. If you have long unpredictable cycles....I would go w/the strips b/c you may need a whole box for just one cycle. Mine are pretty predictable....so one box lasted me two cycles. (The strips are only good for 30 days...according to the box......but I was able to get 2 cycles out of that..and had plenty left over.) If you have the money, I would check out the Clear Blue fertility monitors (CBE) on ebay. The CBEis more expensive, but it tells you the days your fertility is high and could potentially get pg on those days if you have sex...as well as your peak days (ie the day you get your LH surge right before ovulation) the days you really want to have sex. B/c of the IC and PFD...having sex everyday was just out of the question....but knowing when my fertility was high and peak allowed us to just have sex a couple key times versus having to have sex every day or every other day. I used both (Answer and CBE) this past month and we were successful. :wink:

Ok girl...I gotta know...when you say you were successful, does this mean that you are pg, or that you ovulated this time round?? If you don't want to answer my question, it's fine & I totally understand. Good luck though sweetie :)

traceann
07-25-2008, 03:34 AM
Sorry to hear that AF showed! Boo hiss!!! It took DH and I 5 cycles of trying before we got pg and I used the ovulation kits for 2 cycles. I used the Answer Ovulation Tracker kit because it has like 20 strips in it for those with longer or goofy cycles, lol. Even though mine usually ran 28-31 days, I wanted to have all my bases covered :biglaugh: And yeah, they're the dipstick kind, lol. But even the midstream sort of tests - either ovulation or pg, I use a cup anyway - I'm not the best at peeing on a stick!!! A cup I can do!!!! ;)

GOOD LUCK!!!

Hugs,
Tracey :)

Charisse
07-25-2008, 10:01 AM
I don't think one BC pill would prevent you from ovulating although it could have delayed your ovulation a day or two later. I took one week's worth of pills and then decided to stop them mid-pack. I ovulated about 3 weeks later (instead of my normal 2 weeks) and I got pregnant right away on that first cycle. I only knew I ovulated late because of the OPKs. Otherwise I could have sworn off my symptoms that I had ovulated earlier. Lots of mamas have great luck with those OPKs!!

prestwood16
07-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Buffy,
How long have you and your spouse been trying? Sometime the more pressure we put on ourselves the longer we have to wait. It is like waiting for water to boil or waiting for the phone to ring!! Relax!! Have fun while your trying to make a baby and things might be alittle more enjoyable! Here's my story so you will understand and no I haven't had a baby yet, but here goes!!
I've been diagnosised with IC since 2004 no pain until March 2008!! But, long before my IC made the thought of sex make me want to scream, I was diagnosised with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and Endometreisos. So, the two combined isn't a good combination for baby making!! I was doing all the ovulation kicks (which we found wouldn't show up for me ??) doing the fertility thing, clomid, shots!! And, I went CRAZY:loco:!! I hated my self! I hated my husband, my job, people in general!! I cried at the drop of the hat and I'm generally a happy person regardless of all the pain i'm in. Finally, my husband, family and few people at work begged me to take a break from fertility. My sister was going thru a messy divorce, my husbands sister had got knocked up after two wks of dating a guy and I had no support!! So, everyone told right now isn't the time for you to focus on a family. The funny thing was my ex brother in law left my sister on the day of my husband and my first fertility appt!! Wasn't that kind of him?? Here he knew I had been waiting for this and he finally decided our day was the day to make his 4 yr affair public!! But, after many tears and many arguments with God this year one day I woke up with this peace. I realized this year or next year might not be my year. This year my NEPHEWS needed me!! They needed Aunt GiGi to take them to Walmart, to the park, just to be there for them. It wasn't meant for me this year and it might not next year. They needed me and my husband to fill in, in this life changing thing that has happened to them. My hubby is teaching my 10yr old nephew to hunt and alex the 5 yr old he's a mess!! But, God finally made me realize that right now I'm needed as an Aunt and maybe later on I'll be a MOM, but right now I have so much peace in my heart being the best Aunt in the world, that I honestly couldn't ask for more. Although, Nick and I have a deal he has to take care of me and my husband when we are old and gray and in the way!!(my hubby's mamma's saying)
I know I have a thread out about my husband but honestly thinking what he has sacrificed this year, I guess he has a right to blow once in awhile!!
And, his sister who got knocked up while I was on fertility had the most beautiful Girl I've ever seen!! (and i already have 2 beautiful neices also) She found out the night before they were to marry he had been sleeping with his EX!! she still took him back but didn't get married!! He left her again, want pay a penny in child support and says amanda is keeping the baby away. She has always told with he knows where they are, but she is driving an hour for him! I couldn't imagine having such an adorable child and not want to see it! oh yeah, but he has twins he doesn't see either!!
So, I learned how God works this year!! It is His plan not ours!! I have decided it may and it may not happen for me, but I sure would love it if it does!! If it doesn't God has his reasons!!
I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you get pregnant soon!! Just try not to focus all your time and energy on it!! Let it happen when it is suppose too, and it will!! Like my therapist told me, I can't imagine God not blessing you with a child as much as you want one and as much as you love children, but just be patient!!:pray::pray::pray::pray:
Julie

JenAZ07
07-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Alisha........BOTH!!!!! :wink: See....they really work!!!

BuffyFan
07-26-2008, 03:50 AM
Alisha........BOTH!!!!! :wink: See....they really work!!!

YAY...CONGRATS :woohoo: :woohoo:

We ordered the PreSeed online yesterday, so it should be here next week. We just ordered the kind you can use almost like KY...you don't need to insert it & wait 15 minutes. But it's from PreSeed, so it won't harm sperm. It's actually called "Pre" and is made by them. We also picked up a pack of the Answer ovulation test kits. I got the 7 day kit for now. So, we'll see what happens this month.
I am very into crystals & gemstones...energy charged candles & such. I am also wiccan. So yesterday I went & bought two Moonstone stones (which help with fertility)...some manifest a miracle candles, and a necklace of the Goddess which represents fertility. Hoping to have all the basis covered :wink:

Divegirl75
07-28-2008, 08:18 AM
I'm new to this thread...what is Preseed?

BuffyFan
07-29-2008, 04:56 AM
I'm new to this thread...what is Preseed?

PreSeed is much like KY, although the difference is, is that is does not kill or harm sperm. That is what makes is safe to use while trying to conceive :woohoo:

BuffyFan
08-01-2008, 06:06 AM
Well, it is that time for my fiance & I to begin trying & I have been in a flare for a week :rant: Go figure...anytime you plan for something good, IC is there to get in the way. I have posted another thread about taking Enablex. I took one this morning (along with my natural supplements). I just want to see if I find some relief from having to pee all day & from the pressure & burning when my bladder fills :( I do not plan to stay on the Enablex, but I had to give it a shot!!
I have the ovulation test strips, so that may make things easier. My OB said to begin testing today. And until I see that LH surge, we are not supposed to do anything (lol)!!
I will also add, that we got the Pre in the mail that we ordered. It made things very painful the otherday & irritated both he & I. There is so much stuff in that. My doc still says the KY is fine if we need anything. I just hope I can handle this flare & be able to try :pray:

Divegirl75
08-01-2008, 06:16 AM
I'm so glad to have you respond! I feel like I have sooo many questions. Isn't it amazing how our bodies "flaire" during ovulation, when we wanna have sex? :) So, I have been tracking my temp. and fluid for quite some time. I bought the strips too and so far no LH surge. My online calendar says I'm due any day for ovulation (fertility friend.com) based on my signs. But no LH. I am discouraged. We decided two months ago once I got on my new meds (elmiron and Elavil) and off the scary ones (Zoloft, tetracycline, ambien) we'd try. I had ovulation for sure those months. Now, here we are with no signs (no fluid last month either!!!) SoOOOOO discouraging. So where did you get the Preseed? I also heard that Lidocane Jelly helps numb it "down there." I was up peeing 8 times last night and 7 the night before. Makes me sooooooo stinking tired and I have to sleep like 11 hours to ensure I get 8. I always have more peeing frequency during ovulation too!

Let's keep chatting, I have sooo many questions. Are you on Elmiron????

BuffyFan
08-01-2008, 06:30 AM
I'm so glad to have you respond! I feel like I have sooo many questions. Isn't it amazing how our bodies "flaire" during ovulation, when we wanna have sex? :) So, I have been tracking my temp. and fluid for quite some time. I bought the strips too and so far no LH surge. My online calendar says I'm due any day for ovulation (fertility friend.com) based on my signs. But no LH. I am discouraged. We decided two months ago once I got on my new meds (elmiron and Elavil) and off the scary ones (Zoloft, tetracycline, ambien) we'd try. I had ovulation for sure those months. Now, here we are with no signs (no fluid last month either!!!) SoOOOOO discouraging. So where did you get the Preseed? I also heard that Lidocane Jelly helps numb it "down there." I was up peeing 8 times last night and 7 the night before. Makes me sooooooo stinking tired and I have to sleep like 11 hours to ensure I get 8. I always have more peeing frequency during ovulation too!

Let's keep chatting, I have sooo many questions. Are you on Elmiron????

I know...I always flare right around ovulation, but this is just day 10 of my cycle & I have had this flare for almost a week. I haven't flared like this in ages!!
Yes, I was on Elmiron for over 6 months...maybe it was even 9 & it didn't do a thing. I stoped all my bladder meds & switched to natural things. But as I mentioned, today I did take an Enablex.
I think I will test at 2pm today and each day at that same time. I just hope we can do it during this flare if or when I hit my surge!!

Divegirl75
08-01-2008, 07:04 AM
I take ultiria C for pain (like Prosed/pyridium) and it turns my pee blue/green. Wonder if it affects the OPK?????

BuffyFan
08-01-2008, 07:42 AM
I take ultiria C for pain (like Prosed/pyridium) and it turns my pee blue/green. Wonder if it affects the OPK?????

I would think that it may make it more difficult to read the results :confused:

mrsaridings
08-26-2008, 06:50 AM
I stopped my meds months ago and we have been trying since then w/ issues. I could always tell when I was ovulating due to discharge changes. But I am wondering what is the best kit to get as far as that goes, I don't know much about that stuff anyway.

Anyway, I was reading that virgin olive oil is a use for lubricant that will not harm or decrease the sperm. Although I have not used it I have no proof, but might be tempted to try it. Good luck to those trying.