Question for antibiotic users

[Anthrop42]

I have a question for anyone who is doing or has done long-term antibiotics.

I've been taking amoxicillin & augmentin for a little over 3 months now after sending a urine sample to United Medical Labs which found enterococcus. I've seen marked improvement. Most of my symptoms are gone, & even the bladder pain I had during & after sex is almost gone. :woohoo: However, I still flare up during my period (or rather the one week a month I'm off birth control pills). Has anyone else had this happen while on antibiotics, and did this go away eventually with continued antibiotics?

Thanks & best wishes to all.
Aline

[MarthaF]

Aline,

You raise an interesting question and I don't have any definitive answer but did some research and came up with some thoughts. Here is one quote I found:

The human menstrual cycle involves a complex and regular change in female anatomy and physiology over an approximate monthly time period. This cycle commences at puberty and ceases at menopause.



The program includes images of both routine vaginal smears (identifying cell populations) and dilatation and curettage sampling of endometrium (identifying the epithelial changes).

(There was a graph within the quote that didn't copy.)

There are other references to physiological changes in the body during the monthly cycle in the search I did. One refers to changes in the density of the breast tissue that can affect a mammogram. If some tissues change we could infer that that bladder tissue may change, too. Dr. Fugazzotto, who pioneered the bacterial diagnosis and antibiotic treatment of chronic bladder infections said he recommended to some patients that they reduce the dosage of the antibiotics 25% 2 days prior to the start of a period and continue it throughout that period.

He was very innovative and developed a special test to find the level of antibiotic in a patient's specimen once treatment was underway. Antibiotics could build up in the tissues and irritate the bladder in some after a long period of treatment. It is believed the long term treatment is necessary if the bacteria are embedded in the tissue. Everyone handles meds differently and some could tolerate them more easily than others. Augmentin especially penetrates more than others which is what makes it so effective, but it can build up. I experienced this and Dr. F. recommended that I reduce the dosage to see if that helped. It always did. He had found a level that was therapeutic for most but not too concentrated. I'm betting no lab in the world would think of this.

We are plowing new ground with long term antibiotic treatment and so have to figure out some answers on our own. Fortuantely we have the internet. I would be interested to know if you think the physiological changes in the body could account for the flares you experience. Lots of people report changes in symptoms throughout a month and this could explain that. I'm glad you brought this up since I have wondered about it but never did any research. No guarantee I am right but it does make sense.

Martha

[Anthrop42]

Martha,
Thanks for the info. I'll have to experiment with my dosage of antibiotics before my next period & see what happens.

I just did a brief search & found a recent article on HRT (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17330378/) that has a blurb at the bottom that says: "Also, women should tell their doctors about any other drugs, vitamins or supplements they are taking. The herbal supplement St. John’s wort can decrease blood-estrogen levels, undermining the relief any hormone treatment can give. So can certain antibiotics and other drugs."

I've found that if I use estrogen cream during my (week off the pill), it does take away about 80% of any urgency symptoms but only for the first 5 days. By day 6 & 7, I have to take Cystex if the urgency gets too bothersome. Once I start my pill cycle again, the symptoms go away. I do know I'm in perimenopause & my estrogen is dropping, so maybe the antibiotics are decreasing my estrogen further.

I would have to do more research though & see what happens in the coming months. The issue of hormones is so complex.....

Aline

[MarthaF]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7XMT-4HW7630-19&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F30%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a578c54c9f022f4481b2daa15998bb46

[hollipop]

Personally, I had the same issue. Enterococcus and long-term antibiotics cured me.

About the hormone issue, I was the opposite. Birth control KILLED ME while I was on it, so I looked forward to my cycle. I had my hubby get fixed, and all is well now. Unfortunately, I stopped the birth control way before I started the antibiotic therapy, so I can't tell you if hormones would effect me now, but I have no more pain at all...even during my cycle. :smile tee

[SandyRN]

I take 1 100mg Macrobid capsule every day. I've seen a BIG improvement in my IC symptoms as well. I still have them, and I still flare, but it's not nearly as bad as it was. My doctor gave me these because I was giving myself constant infections when cathing...and also sex would send me running into the uro's office to drop off a sample.

It's really been a miracle. I also have a lot of kidney problems, infections, stones, etc, and I've had none of that either as long as I take that macrobid every night.

It's controversial, but if it works, it works.

I get worse with my period too, every month. My IC and my fibro flare and I'm usually on the couch or in the bed 99% of the day for several days.

[Nonna]

I was interested in knowing how you have this broth culture done. Do you have to have a doctor order it? Can someone let me know how they did this. It's one area I haven't explored at all and I'd like to at least rule that out. If long-term antibiotic treatment is what has helped so many people, I would certainly love to consider that option. No doctor has ever suggested this to me at all...I just get told that I don't have an infection. Thanks for any help.

[MarthaF]

Nonna,

You can send a specimen to United Medical Lab on your own. Broth is a more extensive culture that enables the lab to find bacteria that does not show on a typical lab culture. But if you use the treatment it is best to use it under the guidance of someone trained.

I am writing a comprehensive explanation of the antibiotic approach. Although the information is all on the internet it is spread out among many sites and we see a need to have one place for interested patients to look. If you will email me I will send you the infomation I have written but not posted yet. There are also posts here that I have written over the years. My email is mfmidlo@aol.com and I will be glad to give you more information on this approach. It is not a controversial approach for those of us who have had success using it.

Martha F

[hollipop]

http://www.unitedmedicallab.com/form-data/services.html has the forms you can download. You can send in the specimen yourself, or give the form to your doctor to do for you. My urologist has the forms in her office, because she is finding more and more IC patients being cured by this. I'm not the only one.

And just a quickie...I'll write more later, but the reason noone ever found an infection before with my u/a, is because they were looking for nitrates and white blood cells. Strep D doesn't produce nitrates, and we've just discovered that I not only have a low neutrophil count (the white blood cells responsible for defending the body against bacteria), but the few I have may be dysfunctional. I've had numerous "mystery" infections all my life, and now I'm seeing a hematologist that is finally making sense of it all.

PM me if you want my email address. I'll be happy to talk, too. Martha was my lifesaver, and without her posts/PMs, I would not be here today.

[mom_in_ma]

Holly,
Are you still taking the antibiotics?

[matclan]

How do you get diagnosed for PF. Are you cured of that too?