Pelvic muscle vs psychosomatic condition

[CCB]

:hi: Hello, I write and search for my 22yr old daughter. 3/06 car accident hit in drivers side, urgency to go pee 40 times daily, pain in right leg. We have now gone to the expert urolo/gyn dr. who filled my daughters bladder up and found it was holding water fine. This procedure has been done twice, same result.
Dr. says she must go to the psycharatic to see if this is psychosomatic. She had one session and said she has a anixety disorder. She is waiting for more followup on this issue to see if this is so. She has had a thearpist since she was 13yr, this thearpist is in direct contact with the other dr.s. so hopefully this is just something they have to rule out. (She is also much happier now that she has a new pug dog to care for who came with his own bladder problelms.)

She let the dr know that she can not hold on to her tampax, they keep falling out. The one bio feedback she had the thearpist could not get a reading, they could not insert the instrument into the area to get a reading.

I would like them to do more tests, mri, scans, but dr. said nothing can get done until the psychosomatic issue gets resolved.
any feed back is welcome. thanks, :bonk:

[ICNDonna]

Have you considered a second opinion? If not, I think it may be something that should be considered.

Donna

[SandyRN]

"Holding water fine" and IC are two very different things. IC USUALLY shows up as redness, scarring, inflammed bladder tissue...people with IC have varying degrees of how much urine their bladders can hold. I read this post and wonder how your daughter feels about being told about this psychosomatic issue this doctor is talking about. Not all people with bladder problems present the same way, and not all people with IC will have startling biopsy results.

She may have pelvic floor dysfunction which causes her to lose her tampons, and may cause the increase in urination....she could also have IC.

I definately think she needs a second opinion. I can't tell you how many times I've been told it's all in my head, and I can assure you, that when I found the RIGHT doctors who believed me, they let me know I was not imagining things. It's very hurtful to be told that you're imagining your problems. This is not to say she doesn't have some PTSD from the car accident, but a doctor should not be so quick to rule her problems as psychomatic.

Sorry if I come across bitter, but honestly, I am a bit bitter toward the doctors in my past who told me there was nothing wrong with me.

My advice is send your daughter to this site, have her read and ask all the questions she wants, and help her to find a different doctor ASAP.

Sandy

[ICLori]

I agree with everyone else - time for a second opinion! I especially agree with Sandy RN's bitterness at doctors. Sometimes I really hate doctors.

Blessings,
Lori

[lisalau]

i think many of us have been told our symptoms were psychosomatic (and i wish to clear up that psychsomatic does not mean she is imagining it, rather that real physical symptoms manifest that originate from the psyche for eg, butterflys in the stomach when excited/nervous)
at times this may be the case but many of us are testiment to the fact that this is a diagnosis given by many docs when their own limitations as doctors mean THEY cannot find the cause.
Personally i suffered for 2 years, seeing 3 doctors and having to mortgage my home trying every thing they suggested as they considered there was nothing wrong with me physically.
I highly recommend psychiatrists and psychologists however as i was given/taught wonderful skills to help me on this journey
After a particularly painful experience with a physio doing (very gentle) myofascial stretching which rendered me suicidal, she suggested a prof she had heard great things of and an angel arrived in my life. He performed my first urodynamic test, for the first time a doc didnt say the things i describe are impossible and he set out to prove/disprove what i was saying i was experiencing...sure enough every muscle in my pelvic floor is in continuous spasm, a condition apparently only usually seen in cats. I wasnt imagining it, i wasnt causing it to happen by my hysteria (although i was often hysterical)
I wanted to share my story (for the 100th time) with you to encourage you to seek a doctor who has an open mind. These sensations are mind ruining, they turn your head inside out and play havoc with your sanity. please find someone who will listen to your daughter but by all means have everything ruled out. Warm hugs to you for your love and care and belief in your daughter and warm hugs to her....please tell her we have al been there and want to support her any way we can
lisa

[sami4]

Sandy and the other posters said it all: Get a second opinion. If it were me I would also insist on a neurological evaluation of the lower back and pelvic floor which as Sandy said can cause some of these symptoms.
I have PFD and I can tell you when I have a flare, I can lessen and stop it by activating the opposing muscles to stop the spasm. If it were all in my head maybe I could "think" it out, but it takes either massage or movement or a good shot of Elavil.
Sammi

[kadi]

Agree with all the above posters. Get everything physical checked out before assuming it's all in her mind. Whether she has had therapy before is not the most important thing here. Sadly, once a doctor has been told that a patient has prior issues with depression & anxiety, it gives them an easy way out of working hard on a possibly complex case... Please keep supporting your daughter and her need for relief of her symptoms. Many of us have been also told it was all in our heads, which only increased the anxiety and depression anyone would feel with our symptoms.

[UCSB]

PM sent ... recommending an approach for a second opinion in the SF Bay Area. Let's hope your daughter does not have IC.

[kjd]

I'm sory but I definately think she needs a second opinion. I was told so many times it's all in my head, and it wasnt until my 4th doctor that he belived me and reassured me I was NOT going mad!!!
I am not saying that she doesnt have an anxiety disorder but this does not been that these symptoms are not real! I would suspect that she is ansious because of what she has been through and what she has to live with.

sorry to sound negative but I really think you need a better doctor who is willing to do more tests

take care and good luck

[ihurttoo]

Sadly many are not believed at first and must go thru several Drs before someone finds the true cause of pain and makes an accurate d/x. It is not at all uncommon for someone with IC to see 7 or 8 Drs before one who knows about IC and can accurately diagnose it. Also, there are many people who have IC who have normal cystoscopies and can also hold a normal amount of urine. Please, please believe in your daughter. She is trusting you to take care of her, as well as the Drs. We all already know that most of them are going to let her down, and while that will hurt, nothing will ever hurt her more than for YOU to let her down.

Dont want to scare you, but there have been alot of suicides because patients could no longer tolerate their pain, and no one would believe them. I know someone very personally who almost died when no one believed her. Fortunately, someone came home and found her. While hospitalized, they finally did surgery to look inside of her and found her problem. Then, and only then, did she finally get pain meds. She had suffered for 4 yrs before that with nothing, just because of the arrogance and ignorance of her Drs.

As to her seeing therapists before, pls do not reveal that to future Drs, as many will not investigate any further, and just automatically say it must be depression, anxiety or whatever. As a previous poster told you, it is a very easy way out for them, when they cant find the cause.

I also agree that she desparately needs to be around supportive people who understand what she is going thru right now. I have found no other outlet besides this board. It is great b/c it is here 24 hours a day and everyone here is very knowledgable and supportive. So please give her this website address and believe her when she tells you something is wrong and that she is in pain.

Thank you for taking the time to find this site and post on her behalf. We look forward to meeting her soon.

Hugs,
Amy

[humpieumpumkin]

Dont take the psyco crap from her dr.!!! They have told me that since I was 16! Im now almost 22, and finally found a good, highly intelligent and understanding uro. Not only is it extremly damaging to your daughter to hear that, it also is an easy way out for a dr that isn't educated enough to find the correct cause as stated above. I agree with sandy about being bitter and resentful towards dr's. Everytime I walk into a dr office now, I have terrible anxiety and I feel like they will tell me its all in my head. Its a crappy way of life. Please get a second opinion! Ill will pray for you and your daughter, I know what its like to go through this at a young age. If you need anyting at all or if your daughter wants to talk, have her send me a pm! Good luck

[SandyRN]

CCB, I read all your other posts, and more than once you've told us that your daughter had been told it was a suspected case of IC. You really should send HER to this board where she can feel that someone understands her pain and her struggles. I am not clear on where you stand with her problems, but she's an adult at 22, and while I do applaud you for caring so much and stepping in to help you daughter, she needs to come here and read things on her own to be reassured that there are SO many of us who have followed the same path she is on right now.

Sandy

[CCB]

Hello and Thank you.
Liz and I agreed with you that she needs to get on this site and read and speak for herself. I've shared all and told her there are others her age who are going through the same issues.
My daughter saw the first two urologists by herself. She was trying to handle this on her own. It was suggested at first that she may have a tumor, no tumor, maybe ic, ok, this was more than she could handle without family support. Then Mom started getting involved. Liz was then referred to Dr. Payne at Stanford from her second urologist. She saw Dr. Payne for a consulation and third opinion. Dr. Payne said the Dr at Kaser is a well know bladder specialist. in the Kaiser system she was then sent to this specialist in SF where he filled the bladder and said no ic. Now the psychosomatic consulation is next.
So she has now seen 4 urlogists.
The pain meds taken for the last 5 yrs for back pain and fibromaylsia, are vicodin and soma. Does anyone know if soma which is a muscle relaxer causes urgency. Her voluntary pelvic floor muscle contraction was essentally asbent. I wonder if this can happen?
Thanks for all your support :angel: and suggestions. :bonk:

[UCSB]

Dr. Payne is certainly one of the best IC specialists in the country. So I feel that your daughter is getting good care. The problem that your daughter is having is that IC in the absence of objective evidence (ie ... a 300cc bladder with damage) is often a diagnosis of exclusion. That means that IC patients have to endure a process where other possible health problems are checked first and then excluded.

From your first post it was not clear if her bladder problems were a direct result of the auto accident. If so, I am surprised that she has not had a neurological consult.

I hope that the SF specialist is correct and that she does not have IC.

[CCB]

Hi all, a new update....Liz was rear ended yesterday driving on the packed freeeway at 35 mph and walked away. But her fibromaylsia came back in a furry. She is in a 9 pain, Kaiser emerg.gave her a morhphine shot and anti inflamatory shot. no fillm or exrays. This has flared everything and she is in such a tight body frame that she can not get eased and this makes it hard to pee, her muscles are just tense. She has calls into her dr.s and will see a nurse later today. I'm bringing her a ice machine to lay on. The pain in the neck is the worst but her arms hurt and much pain especially down the left front thigh leg which is where she has complained about since the last car accident when the ic started. This is her 3 car accident where she has been hit by others. Her new pug puppy was in the car in his seat belt and when the man who rammed into her came to her aid, he said "he had turned to look at his two dogs in his truck when he rearended her and was glad her dog was safe and locked in his seat".
:pray: Thanks for your support. cici

[SandyRN]

I'm so sorry that your daughter had another car accident. I hope that she feels better very soon! I know how it feels to be in a car accident with fibro, and it makes an already very unhappy body feel so much worse. Please tell her that we're thinking about her here and looking forward to meeting her soon!

Hugs, Sandy

[cia]

I have used Soma off and on for about ten years ( bad fall at work, torn cartilage in my knee, bone spur in my shoulder) everything seems to cause muscle tension. I have been in a flare for 14 months. I have been through the Pelvic floor therapy and am now on weekly instillations, my pain came down to about a 6-7. I started working out as a new years resolution and almost killed myself, I got a prescription for Soma for the permanant problems that I will have with my knee and shoulder until the work out loosens them up. Surprisingly the pain and frequence of my bladder spasms have been greatly reduced. I swear by this stuff. I hope your daughter feels better soon

[topcop229]

How is everything going with Liz? Has she recovered from the second accident and has she had any other appointments with the docs in reference to her IC?