New 28 year old male to the IC world :(

[fossil1]

Hi all,

I also want to share my story. I'm a 28 year old male very healthy with no medical problems before in life just sports injuries since I lived a very active life (I had surgery in my ankle in February). I have a beautiful girlfriend which I've dated for 9 years (yeah yeah I know....but I'm planning to propose soon) and we have a normal sexual life. I've always drink a lot of water and never been a big alcohol drinker even though I have my beers once in a while and I don't smoke either.

About 3 months ago (October) I started feeling some pain in my bladder area and frequency with the feeling I wasn't emptying my bladder. At that time, I had just started a new job and was drinking a lot of coffee (3 times day) and a lot of vitamin C (1,600 mgs a day when normal is 100 mg) so I thought that was the problem but still I decided to visit my primary Doctor. He told me I probably had a UTI and gave me cipro for a week. He order some blood and urine exams which all came fine and started feeling better that week with the antibiotics but after that week all the symptoms came back plus know I had a weak stream (and going everywhere but straight). I decided to visit the first urologist who told me I had a varicose in my left testicle and that was the reason of my problems and that it should go away. When I ask him why the pain in the bladder he told me that it's because "all is connected inside".

Not happy with his diagnosis I visited the 2nd urologist who told me I had prostatitis and put me in antibiotics for 2 more weeks (levaquin) and uroxatral. I had an improvement for the first week but I still didn't felt normal. I visit him every week for follow ups and he performed some urine exams which all came negative. After seen no results I decided to visit Dr. Shoskes in Cleveland since he is a prostatitis expert. I got an appointment in a month (December) since I needed to be clear of the residues from the antibiotics. Meanwhile a friend of mine recommended another urologist and I decided to give him a try while I waited for my visit to Cleveland........."what do I have to loose?"

At this point my symptoms where the same but now I had a small burning sensation in the top of my penis and a lot of anxiety since I was 2 month into this "condition" and no progress. The new urologist mentioned IC which caught me off guard since I was there for prostatitis!!! He performed a cytoscopy (ahhh that hurt) and the potassium test which didn't burned. He told me to take Elmiron 2 times a day (4 pills), once a day uroxatral and 2 pills of prelief with each meal (6 pills) and to come back in 3 months. He also gave me a diet for IC patients. This was 3 weeks ago..........

So that day I started reading about IC and it's where my world felt apart. Most of the stories were about women suffering this condition for many years and guess what....no cure. I felt depressed since how can this be happening to me? I'm 28 years old, male and very healthy!!! Also, the Dr never explained to me what he saw in the cytoscopy...was it bad? I wasn't aware of IC so I didn't asked the right questions since he just told me I'll be fine and that the medicine took a while to work.

A week ago I visited Dr. Shoskes which is a great Doctor and human being. I knew he performed more complex cultures so I was trying to discard any infection (and even wishing I had an infection instead of IC). He told me all my symptoms where more IC related than prostatitis and my prostate seemed normal. He told me to continue with the elmiron, uroxotral, prelief plus vesicare and cystaQ. BTW, I called yesterday and all the cultures came negative so yes, I have IC.

After reading the success post of trying2cope I added to my combo of medicines the glucosamine with MSM. So every day I take 4 elmiron, 1 uroxatral, 6 prelief, 2 cystaQ, 1 vesicare and 3 glucosamine (1,500 mg). I just hope I'm not doing more harm to my body taking so many medicines. Also, since I'm relatively new to IC, I expect my bladder to be in better shape that someone who had suffered this condition for many years. But I still feel depressed when I start thinking about the future. Will I have to take Elmiron or any other pill for the rest of my life? What if I never get better?

A couple of questions for anyone who can help; Is Elmiron for life? has anyone lived free of IC after have some problems in the past? I've noted before my IC symptoms that my abdominal area (now I know is where my bladder is located) was a little bit swollen from the right side....does any body else see their bladder with some inflammation? How can you know when the problem is the muscles instead of the bladder?

Any help or comment will be deeply appreciated and thank you for taking the time to read my story. Thanks to everyone in the board!

Jay

[Vireo]

Dear Jay,

I read your story and decided to share a bit of my story with you... this may help. I think I have finally figured out what created my pelvic pain in the first place and have found people who are true experts at treating it. I have had Pelvic pain for 15 years. It started when I was 18 or 19, but at that time I had no health insurance and was a starving student so I could not attain real medical help for several years until I was in Graduate School at Umich. The Univ. of Michigan has a very good pelvic pain clinic and they helped me somewhat with a combination of drugs and pelvic floor PT, but it just was not enough. There was something missing. I think I have found that missing link, but before I talk about it... I wanted to let you know that I have tried the low oxalate diet, the low acid diet, an allergy diet, several antidepressants including nortryptillin...the only one that did any good, elavil...did nothing, potassium citrate...also provides relief.. But these drugs only work to alleviate pain for lessening the nerves that are already hypersensitive due to some other problem. So, I finally figures out why I have nerve problems...and how to treat it. I moved to Florida where there were no good pelvic pain specialists, but I did find an amazing. This was the beginning of figuring out what was actually wrong. This is a bit complex, but it turns out that I have 6 lumbar vertebrae which makes the joints of the pelvis unstable. I had a car accident when I was 19 that badly misaligned my 1st cervical vertebrae...and most therapists and chiropractors are simply not trained to fix this problem. This greatly destabilizes the pelvic joints because it pinches the brain stem and interferes with nerve transmissions to the pelvis amongst other things. The strain that the pelvic floor undergoes as it tries to stabilize the pelvis puts pressure on the pudendal nerve, leads to trigger points (taut bands of muscle that do not relax because they do not get the blood flow they need.. a negative feedback cycle), this leads to pelvic muscle atrophy or spasms...this puts pressure on the organs in the pelvis...and wrecks havoc on your intestines..etc. So, the same type of thing can happen to men who squat a lot..firemen... men who ride bikes all of the time... or men who have incidents that affect the stability of their pelvis. To make a long story short, I now live near San Francisco and I am seeing Dr. Weiss at the Pacific Center for Pelvic Pain (I would highly recommend looking at their website). 70% of their patients have SI joint instability, but their are other reasons for pelvic pain. The treatment that they offer is multifaceted. In my case this involves figuring out how to stabilize the SI joint (if this is your problem a good chiropractor may be able to help you here) physical therapy to eliminate trigger points, stretch the connective tissue of the pelvic floor, thighs, back and stomach, and therapy and exercises to eliminate the pressure on the nerves of the pelvis. I feel better than I have in years, it all makes sense now, I trust my doctors... and I am now hopeful that, within a year, I will be pain free. As your symptoms have just started, you are fortunate, because if you can find the right treatment now, it won't take as long to be cured. I would highly recommend reading "A headache in the Pelvis", this book worked a miracle for me because it was a revolutionary way to think about this problem... most of the stuff I read has to do with diet, not muscle tension, this book lays it all out. I really think that tightness of the skin, muscles and connective tissue of the pelvis is the root of most of these problems (and it is not readily acknowledged that back problems can cause this, but I think people will come around.) I am about to write my story and try to get Jill to publish it.. I think that back issues are an important missing link. Incidentally, you might also be interested in looking at Laura Sheehan's website.. a chiropractor in San Francisco that works with women with pelvic instability due to child birth. Also, my UPC chiropractor cured my exercise induced asthma. Amazing what the spine can do! Good luck and don't give up!!!

Stefanie :woohoo:

P.S. these emoticons are great!!!

[Briza]

Jay, Stefanie:welcome: :hi:
Glad you found us. Lots of understanding, compassion, experience, and support you will find here, more than you will ever find in any drs' office. I'm sure you'll get lots of repsonses and welcomes, just the xmas holidays, not too many members are on today, I imagine because of xmas plans... but you will get some replies and advice, I promise!

Jay,
Yeah, we're mainly gals around here, but remember we're the compassionate, understanding, let it all out gender...so don't be shy, we'll be here for you just as we are for the other ladies. There's also the men's forum you can post in or private message to the other guys if you feel more comfortable talking with them.

Merry Christmas and Best wishes!

[Briza]

Hey ladies and gents,
I promised these guys they'd get some more repsonses! I know lots of us are busy with the holidays, but let's not forget about the new members! Thanks!
:)

[leelee88]

:welcome:

[ICNDonna]

I'm sorry I missed your message --- and would like to welcome you to the IC Network. It sounds like you have found a skilled urologist so hopefully you will feel better soon.

You mentioned that you had a potassium sensitivity test and did not feel pain; most ICers experience pain with this test --- it's the pain with the test that signals IC.

The Patient Handbook at http://www.ic-network.com/handbook will help you learn more about IC.

One thing you should know is that most people with IC do find effective treatments and most of us feel good most of the time.

Warm welcoming hugs,
Donna

[fossil1]

Hi all,

Thank you for all your comments and support. I actually had a chance to visit my last Dr. last week (this was the 2nd visit after he diagnosed me with IC after the cytoscopy) and he told me to keep on the Elmiron and Uroxatral. I asked him what did he see in the cytoscopy in my bladder and he said nothing! That my bladder was fine and that I had protatitis.......he said the Elmiron also helps for this.
This is all starting to sound like he has no clue. If in fact I don't have IC what do I have then? Why take Elmiron and Uroxatral?????
I actually called my Dr. in Cleveland to comment about this visit but they are out until next year.
Stepanie- I'm reading the "headache in the pelvis" and actually contact them to get an evaluation but at this moment I don't have the money to fly and pay for the 6 days sessions. Also, I would like to get a confirmation first that my problem is muscular....... I don't recall anytime hurting myself in anything but I do moderately weights and sports. Does anyone knows about a good Dr. and PT in Miami?
Again, thank you all for your help and support since this gives me a lot of hope.

Jay

[Katrina]

:welcome: to the ICN!
http://icandme.9.forumer.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=696 male IC notes
I was 24 when diagnosed and believe it or not I know of some male IC patients younger than you....:grouphug:

Elmiron helped me a lot and although some doctors say it is for life some can wein down or off. Currently IC is seen as an injury...possibly from an infection or some physical injury or something. We don't know why it is so hard and takes so long for the bladder to heal but if further injury is avoided you may be able to get to a point where you would no longer need Elmiron but since so many cases with IC are very different it is impossible to know where you stand...there is an exception to almost everything.

PFD is a big factor with IC for men since your muscles are bigger.
http://icandme.9.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=6 pelvic floor dysfunction (PFD) learning to relax the muscles treatment options symptoms of PFD and more

[fossil1]

Thanks for the information!!!
Now I have to find a good Dr. in Miami to get treated since I haven't had any luck yet. Please any help on this matter will be deeply appreciated.

Jay

[rachann]

:welcome: It sounds like you are on the right track. You had typed that your doc found nothing on the bladder wall. That is normal. My urologist said that many patients with ic have no signs on the bladder wall and that ic is diagnosed when all other possibilities have been ruled out. I would certainly stay on the Elmiron. It can take up to 6 months to feel a difference. I would also talk to your doc about antihistamines like Atarax and an antidepressants like Elavil. Both have helped me with pain management and sleep. I also recommend reading The IC survival guide by Doctor Moldin. It's very informative about all the possible treatments options. I wish you many pain free days!:smile tee Rachel

[Julie B]

Everyone here is giving you great advice. Most IC patients do get better once they find a combination of treatments that works for them.

One very important thing for all newbies to understand here is that often, what you read on the message boards, is the worst case scenario for folks. They come here looking for answers, asking for prayers, poking around to find a treatment that worked for someone else, and they are often scared, frustrated and in pain when they do so--thus their posts may seem more negative than they feel.

So....if you think about it........the boards are somewhat weighted toward negative happenings because if someone is feeling good they have hopefully found something else wonderful to do with their time in place of posting to the boards! Be assured, that with current treatment options, that day is closer for you than you may think!

Hang in there! We are all here to help.

[fossil1]

Thanks for the support......it really helps.
I've been living with IC for 4 months now, with good days and bad days. Sometimes I will say even days with no symptoms and the bad days are not close to what I've read in the boards with people with a lot of pain. My bad days consist of that bloating sensation in my bladder and frequency. That being said, I will consider my case mild but just the feeling of anxiety and uncertainty of the future kills me........I start thinking if I will get better? What if the symptoms get worse? Will the Elmiron work (I’ve been on it for 5 weeks)? How do I know if it's IC or muscular?
What is weird also is that I've been in the IC diet for a month and my symptoms continue pretty much the same (mild) so I'm starting to wonder what role does diet plays in my case. The other day I had a couple of beers and I didn't felt worse just the same. I also had some tomato for this last to days and I'm feeling the same (not that it gets worse).
I've noticed in the mornings when I wake up that I have to immediately pee but I have a good and strong stream. Is that common?
Of the pills I'm taking there's one that makes an immediate difference which is vesicare but I’ve stop taking it for the last week since it's giving me constipation problems and I've notice since then the my symptoms have gotten more obvious. This pill if for overactive bladder........is this suppose to work for IC patients too? Has anyone else taken that medicine? What will be the equivalent of a similar pill?
Thanks all for you help!

Jay

[fossil1]

Also I've read some people talking about a nerve in the ankle. I had surgery 10 months ago in my left ankle for a soccer injury in my ligaments and tendon. Any chance?

[Katrina]

Many IC patients have bladder spasm...overacitve bladder is bladder spasms with not known reason...so basically many IC patients have it as part of their IC...reason being their bladder is irritated or inflammed. It is often helpful for the frequency aspect but if the first one doesn't work..don't give up there are a lot of different antispasmodics. I am on Hyoscyamine....Detrol La is an example of another antisapsmodic...peppermint is good alternative in that area if your just not in the mood for lots of new drugs. If vesicare is helping than your having some spams. : ANASPAZ, CYSTOSPAS, DITROPAN, LEVSIN, LEVSINEX, URISPAS & URISED (antisapsmodics) Vesicare may just be too strong of a antispasmodic for you....and the last thing you need is constipation or retention from it ....but don't give up there are a lot of choices in that area!

on the muscular...it doesn't have to be either or it can be both. Normally if it is only muscular diet won't bother you
. Usually a patient that has just PFD and not IC will not have nighttime frequency and may feel that diet doesn’t affect their symptoms. If a patient has IC and not PFD they shouldn’t have retention or difficulty in their urine stream. One other clue that PFD may be a problem is constipation. My bladder these days is a lot better but my urethra is still catching up....my uro recommended getting the bladder coats directly on the urethra.


The strong stream in the morning makes sense to me if you were able to sleep most of the night. You hopefully were relaxed while aspleep hopefully lessoning the possible retention you have during the day.

Elmiron started to work for me on about the fourth month. It is hard to know if it will work for you or not. It is sort of bandaid to help your bladder heal...so just getting enough to be bandaid...than doing the healing....it can take some real time. Personally rescue instilaltions are a faster way to do the same thing but I understand why a catheder wouldn't be a man's first choice :grouphug:

www.pelvicpain.org may help you look for a pt
My guess for you right now is that a lot of your problem is muscular and with that you don't want to take a med that causes you constipation...but you may want to do something to help avoid the constipation
http://icandme.9.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=6 probiotics, milk of magnesium, magnesium hydroxyde, can help a bit with constipation. do you have the bloating people right away in the morning too??

Many IC patients have had something that seemed to begin their IC. I don't know what about that injury or surgery that is the connection, weather it be a medication you got or if the nerve itself the problem...lots of possiblities and no easy answer.

I am sorry your suffering and struggling with side effects...your the hardest part of this...the beginning. It gets easier! :grouphug:
:grouphug: I hope you feel better soon! :grouphug:

[rachann]

It seems like for a small percentage of ic patients diet doesn't have an impact on symptoms. You might be one of those lucky few. My mother in law has ic and she can eat spicy foods and drink tequila and beer. That blows my mind! I would be so miserable if I did that. So thank your lucky stars that you can enjoy simple pleasures like tomatoes and beer.:woohoo: Also, I agree with Katrina stay on the Elmiron. Overactive bladder, I have it and take detropan xl 10mg at night. I wasn't diagnosed with it until 3 years after my diagnosis of ic. It helps tremendously. I've tried to take myself off of it in the past thinking ( I am on some many meds and I might not need this one anymore). What a terrible idea that was.:toilet: So vesicare might be helping you more than you realize. :smile tee I also can have a full stream if I have slept through the night. Hope any of this helps. Rachel

[Katrina]

I did not mean to say that there are not a small number of IC patients that are not affected by diet....

Dr Moldwin explains some helpful ways to tell if you have only PFD and not IC and that is what I said is that PFD is not normally affected by diet and IC alone shouldn't cause retention....but it can cause PFD. They often are together. My PFD is way worse than IC these days.

[fossil1]

Thank you for your help!!! Even though I don't feel a fortunate man, I do feel very blessed from all the help I'm receiving from you ladies.
In the morning I don't have the bloating sensation in my bladder. I will say that it starts progressing during the day and I thought it was as I drank water. I've used to drink a lot of water thru all my life (like 12 cups a day) and now I feel I can't empty it.
So let me be clear......if you have IC and you are experiencing a flare, your frequency and stream should be the same in the morning as during the day? In the morning when I wake up, I HAVE to go to the bathroom and I have a strong stream with the sensation I've emptied my bladder. Also if it's muscular, can you have bladder spasms too?
I've been reading the "headache in the pelvis" and honestly I don't feel I've had to much stress in my life lately, although I started a new job and the last 2 years were really tough since my sister was sick with Leukemia. But why show symptoms now? I have to recognize that after the first month of symptoms and realizing this wasn't something temporal, whether is IC, PFD, Prostatitis, I've been more anxious........
I also work out and regularly do weight lifting. I've read in the book that it can be a problem. But again so many questions with no answers.
This week I started with hot baths to see if that helps. I assume that if I feel good after hot baths (even if it’s for a few hours) that will indicate is more muscular than IC right?
I've also experience some leakage after urinating, is this common in IC patients?
I'm feeling fine today and I'm planning to have some beers to see if that affects me. I just hope my subconscious doesn't affect me by thinking I'll get a flare; I'll try to remain calm.
Thanks again and I hope I'm not been a pain in the ......asking so many questions.

Jay

[Katrina]

in the mornings we are more acidic but more relaxed...harder for IC but can be easier on PFD

I do think that your bloated feeling may be from the retention.
Since there is also the IC belly....mass cells causing bloatedness....I needed to ask a question to see if it was likely part of the PFD too.

So let me be clear......if you have IC and you are experiencing a flare, your frequency and stream should be the same in the morning as during the day?no, lots of things affect IC and many IC patients have PFD ...something like 80% but if you had only IC....and the amount in your bladder was always the same (which hardly ever is and night time increases how much your willing to hold because your asleep)...than yes.


With PFD your symptoms can come from long term stress as much as they would when you are stressed. The stress itself can cause you tighten up...that in time can lead to weaknes...causing spasms which it sounds like you are having.

. I assume that if I feel good after hot baths (even if it’s for a few hours) that will indicate is more muscular than IC right?
yes it is but please realize on this board most of the patients will say they have IC and say they feel better with the baths....because that relaxation of the muscles around the bladder can relieve the IC pain. If you google pfd you will read Dr. Moldwin's writings on it....he has written the stuff on the difference on PFD and IC.

I've also experience some leakage after urinating, is this common in IC patients?
that sounds more pfd or over active bladder to me. (once again all 3 can coexists)

Also if it's muscular, can you have bladder spasms too?
Yes!!! Those spasms are the muscles!
PFD...muscle tightness and or weakness or spasming of the pelvic muscles.

the tightness is like a constant spasm...not so severe that it forces you to urinate.

Prostatodnia may be a word you want since that is the word meaning PFD in men...so in your googling look that one up too.


Treating PFD:
• Pelvic floor relaxation technique
• Warm sitz baths two or three times a day
• Avoiding constipation and straining during bowel movements
• Avoiding straining during urination
• Stress reduction
• Avoiding sitting for long periods of time
• Biofeedback
• Posture education (if needed)
• Muscle relaxants
• Trigger point therapy
• TENS(transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) unit
• Myofascial therapy
• Acupuncture
• Diet modification (to avoid spasms, constipation, and dehydration)
• Gentle exercise (muscle strengthening is only done on patient by patient basis and should be second to muscle relaxation!)
• Yoga
• Tai Chi
PFD often flare ups from sex, exercise, other symptoms flaring, bowel movements, and stress. (See May’s newsletter on ways to deal with stress) If you’re having an “IC” flare that may be related to PFD do what you can to relax those pelvic muscles. If you already know those things cause you to flare in some cases it may be avoidable. Doing things to relax your pelvic muscles before and after things that flare PFD can help you avoid the flare.

Good luck!! :grouphug:

[sandramac]

:welcome: Jay
I just wanted to welcome you to the ICN , and glad you found us here. first of all know you are not alone! We are all here together to share info & support. I know there are several young men here also , who would most likley reach out to add thier experiences as well!
Hugs Sandra:cat: :cat: :cat:

[fossil1]

Thanks Katrina, Rachel, Sandra and everyone.

What is the IC belly? I've noticed that when I have problems urinating my low abdominal or bladder area look like swollen. In the morning it looks more relaxed.
Katrina now that you mention Acidic, does every IC patient has acidic urine? I've bought some of the acidic strips to do test and I've done them first thing in the morning, in the afternoon, at night and they all come normal......

Thanks again!

[rachann]

From what I have read, everyone has acidic urine. The problem is that if you have ic the protective lining in the bladder wall is broke down and the acid sneaks into the lining and that causes inflammation. Prelief is great for neutralizing those acids. I take 2-3 tablets before each meal. If I am in a flare I take even more. :)

[Katrina]

Most newbies not following the diet normally would....a lot of the things that begin IC for people increase how acidic we are. The dammage to the bladder though can certainly exsist after a normal ph is achieved. With the amount of water you drink a normal ph is not surprising....but can be a lot harder for those of us with IC to achieve for some reason.

IC belly is a bloatedness from mass cells....it is like your abdomin is allergic to something. It is tender to the touch unlike gas.
As inflammation occurs in the body, something called vascular permeability happens. Vascular permeability means that blood vessels dilate (widen/stretch) and begin to ooze or leak fluid, having no place to “escape” to this fluid seeps into the surrounding tissue areas. In response to this the body releases white blood cells (leukocytes) that can create further inflammation
When it is bad a woman can look pregnant.

[Katrina]

Rachel is right the norm for urine is slightly acidic.

[fossil1]

Katrina so you think my problems is more muscular? I had a couple of drinks yesterday and don't feel any worse. I've noticed my constipation problems started like by the time I started my IC diet recommended by my Dr. since I was not eating anymore fruits and some vegetables.....I was eating pretty much chicken:bonk: .
I'm starting to firmly believe my problem in not IC related but muscular or PFD. I stopped taking the uroxatral since it's only for symptoms and I don't want to keep on taking unnecessary pills. I like more the idea of the peppermint since it also helps for the bowel moments. I found a tea containing peppermint and SPEARMINT........it's that ok? how much should I drink every day?
I will continue the hot baths and the elmiron since I don't think is that harmful but will cut on alpha blockers.
What do you think?

[Fluffy2]

:welcome:
Hi Jay,

Welcome aboard. I am somewhat new to the boards too as my IC started in September after a year and a half of frequent urge to pee, stress incontinence and nightime frequency:toilet: . As well, sometimes for me sex would cause what I know now to be mild urethritis which would be diagnosed incorrectly in the dr.'s office as a UTI. The antibiotics would always work until this October when my symptoms became very severe. The cultures were done for urine and everything else and everything came back negative. So here I am waiting for my urodynamics test in February. I live in Canada where as free as the health care system may be the waiting times for specialists are deplorable.

I would say my symtoms are also mild compared to many of the others here. I believe that coffee for me was a huge factor in keeping the bladder nice and irritated for all that time leading up to my IC discovery. Now that I have cut that out, I have improved vastly over the last few months. I think for all of us it takes time and patience to find out what works for us and what our triggers really are. I think the biggest thing about IC is the frustration we feel about the vagueness of it all. So many of the symtoms overlap with other things and we want to know without a shadow of a doubt how to treat what plagues us. I have to get my head around the fact that I may never know 100% what is wrong with me except to say that I have an "irritable bladder condition". Many of the people online here have been to multiple urologists who tell them conflicting diagnoses. This really makes me believe that we may never know exactly what is going on- at least for the time being. I hope with time & more research that does change. For example, it was only a few years ago (10-12 yrs) that they started to think that cervical cancer may be caused by the HPV virus. Now that has been verified and there is a vaccine available. Whether there will be enough attention and money thrown into IC research is another question.

These boards are a huge source of comfort when things seem so unsure as I imagine you can relate to. It is also a resource for information which you need to be armed with when dealing with the medical community. You have likely already read stories so similar to your own. That helps keep you from thinking you are going crazy!!
Keep us posted and best wishes for a healthy 2007!

Kelly

[Katrina]

I do think your symptoms lean to be more muscular but symptoms don't always say everything you need to know.
I don't know enough a spearmint to say...I just want to make sure with the tea that it has herbal peppmint not just the taste!

http://icnshop.com/cgi-bin/ustorekeeper.pl?command=goto&file=IBS_Products.html link to the one I take

a little bit on the Elmiron...if there is a possibility that any of your digestive tract symptoms are from it ...try taking it out of the capsule and drinking it. Normally if it causes side effects in that area it is diarhia or stomach upset but just incase.

I sure hope you can find out for sure soon and get on the path to feeling better. :grouphug: