Do photographers usually rip clients off?

[green_the_fish]

I just went to get my senior portraits taken. To be honest, it was not an experience that I was looking forward to, and I was very nervous the whole time. I hope that nervousness won't show up as tension on my face. But, at the same time, I felt good the session in general, because I thought I had found a great bargain. This session was $19, included two outfits, 14-16 views, and the black-and-white picture option. I thought it was a pretty good deal. There was an additional five dollar charge for sending the yearbook photos to my school to get printed, and of course, we would be charged for prints seperately, but we would still come out of it with a bargain.

Well, my mom thinks that they are going to rip us off and charge us over two hundred dollars for this. She thinks this because, when I walked in, I signed a contract stating:


A $175.00 NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT is required to remove and borrow a preview book from our studio. Please remember to bring this deposit when you come back to pick-up your preview book (it cannot be released to you without this deposit). This $175.00 deposit will be applied toward your portrait order balance as long as yoru preview book is returned and your order is placed within 4 WEEKS of photography.

...

The below PREVIEW APPOINTMENT TIME has been RESERVED especially for YOU. At this time, we will review your preview book with you, explain our portrait pricing, collect your $175.00 NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT and answer any questions which you may have.

When I got picked up again after the session, my mom read over the contract and decided that we are now obligated to fork over 175 bucks, which we are never going to see again. She believes that it is a catch made to trick people and extract hundreds of dollars for what is advertised as a $20 session. She said that it was up to me to read over the contract, and I shouldn't just walk into places, get nervous, and sign random contracts. So, according to her, I just lost us hundreds of dollars.

I mean, if I really did just cost us hundreds of dollars, then she can say whatever she wants at me, and I'll be fine with it. I'll do my best to pay her back for it, too. But if we didn't, and the deposit was just for safety purposes, so we wouldn't just run off with the previews... then I'm not going to take back what I said about her having a distrustful attitude towards humanity in general. I really feel like she does not trust people. But if she's right, then, well, I guess people just can't be trusted, and I will probably won't want to get my pictures taken again.

Do photographers usually rip clients off? Is this just kind of a common thing? I thought that my mom was really overreacting, and we neatly got into a big fight about it. How were senior portraits for you guys? Did you guys get ripped off? Contracts with minors aren't actually legally binding, right? Could we still get out of this? Or does my mom not understand what the contract meant? I don't get what just happened, but my mom really believes that we got taken.

Basically, I need to know if I just lost hundreds of dollars for being too trusting :confused:

[vm]

My thoughts on it? Which could be totally wrong so definitely take them with a grain of salt....

It says you have to pay the $175 to remove and borrow the preview book. I'm going to guess that is so you will feel more pressure to review it during your appointment - which means they'll have more time to talk you into a bigger, more expensive portait package b/c they've got you right there and can pressure you.

But it doesn't say you have to pay the $175 at the appointment ---- you only have to pay it if you want to take the preview book.

Going by what you posted of the contract - the $175 is only to take the preview book with you.

[vm]

Then again - maybe they won't let you order without putting down that $175? The sitting fee was $20 - but maybe the portrait packages themselves are outrageous???

Either way - you're only out $19 if you decide the portrait packages are just waaaaaaay overpriced b/c you don't HAVE to pay the $175. You haven't promised to pay that --- you've only said you understand you'll have to pay it to remove/borrow the preview book.

It does sound like they're being kind of slicky - but you could only lose $19 in the deal if they are really trying to rip you off. Just make sure you have an adult with you at your session to look at your proofs!

[BeachBaby]

...on the other hand, you might look around at other studios, even surrounding towns for a better and clearer package deal. I do know that for both my girls, senior portraits were not cheap...this may just be a smarmy way of "appearing" like the best buy in town.

If you lose $19.00 and come up with a better price elsewhere it may be worth it. My guess is they are all fairly close in price. But, do call around and ask...and don't be afraid to call this current studio and ask just exactly what you might expect to pay for a typical package. If they are a decent company/photographer, they shouldn't be anything but up front.

I dealt with senior studios a lot, not just my kids, but also working to get team photos done for the following spring seasons...I will tell you some are more temperamental than others and often it is just a lone photographer and you may be dealing with ego issues. Just be bold enough to ask them what's up. Good luck...wow senior year, so full of things to do...are you looking at schools now?

[BeachBaby]

Hi again,

I just sent you a PM with a link...check it out. :)

[dg2901]

Like mentioned, the $175 is for borrowing your preview book. You're not obligated to view your previews; you could just go by luck of the draw as to what the pictures are going to look like. Should you choose to view your previews and place the order within 4 weeks of the date the portraits were taken then yes, you do owe the $175 which states will be put towards the purchase price of whatever package you chose. $175+ is about the average rate for Senior portraits--I dont feel its a "rip-off" at all. I paid $200 for mine 20 years ago.

take care and enjoy your Senior year!
diana

[green_the_fish]

Maybe it's not a rip-off to some of you, but I don't have the money. That $200 is for neccesities. If you were well-off enough to pay $200 to get your senior pictures taken, then that's great. It's nice to be doing well financially. But I can't afford to spend $200 getting my picture taken. My mother is trying to raise my sister and I in a two-bedroom apartment on a part-time job without any financial help from my father. We just got off of food stamps, and I still get free lunch at school. If it weren't for Medicaid, I couldn't afford any of my meds. My relatives can't help us, since they are in South America, and wouldn't have the money anyway. I can't get a job right now, since I am still technically a refugee, and my application for the green card hasn't been accepted yet. So, there is no extra money right now to be spent on fancy stuff. If I lost us the money, we are definetely getting heading towards a fight.

If they are all going to be that price then, well, I guess I just can't afford it. My mom has a friend that is a photographer, so maybe they take my senior pictures. As for colleges, I don't know how I'm going to pay for that at all, so I'm not worrying about it yet. Student loans, I guess. But, anyway, the next time I go, I should just ask for clear explanations of everything, so that I know what's going on.

Vm, I wouldn't mind just previewing the photo book while I'm in there; that's what I wanted to do anyway. I guess I have not really promised anything yet, anwyay. I will definetely bring my mom in with me when we go to see the pictures that were taken.

[BeachBaby]

I was just trying to give you an idea of what I paid in the past. I am not sure if it is a rip off or not. I am sorry this is a difficult cost for you to take on right now. I didn't know that, nor was I implying anything about this particular package.

I think we were all just trying to answer your question, and these are the only answers I know. I thought you just wanted to see if this "particular" situation was fair, and I thought looking elsewhere might shed some light.

You might speak to your guidance counselor to see if they have programs in place to help defray costs...many schools do. I hope you are able to find a solution.

[vm]

Yeah, I don't think anyone was saying "that price should be affordable to you" ---- I think they were just saying that that is about what senior pictures typically cost. Which IS unfortunate. I honestly don't know what we'll do when our boys are that age and needing the pics - I'd hate to plunk down that much money, too, when it could go towards other things.

Please don't think other posters were saying you should think it's a reasonable price. They were just saying that is typical pricing. :kissing: I'm glad you have another option. It is crazy to have to pay that much. If you have someone who can do it for much cheaper and still produce a nice pic for you to submit to the yearbook then I say go for it.

And you know? I hate my Senior pics - would have been fine with them never having been taken as I look back now almost 20 years later. :lmao:

[Sarojini]

When I had mine done, I had proofs made at the two studios in my town, and then picked the one with the better package deal. You will need to pay for your portrait pack no matter where you go, but I find the $175 to take the proof album with you an enormous rip, since we got to keep ours for free (course that was back in 1992). And, it does suggest that your package is going to be expensive.

However, they always are... photographers always use special occasions like weddings, graduations, engagements, etc to charge more, and it IS unfair. I agree with the people that suggested shopping around, as I did. Just because you had your proofs taken at one studio doesn't mean you can't go to another.

Also, there is the power of negotiation. It may not seem like it, but you can try to negotiate just about everything...suggest a portrait package you want and then say, "I haven't the money to do this... what can you do for me?" If they say nothing, suggest about a 15% discount, or offer to pay in installments. These places are pretty amenable to that. You could even get more off if you play your cards right!! (And you would, because you are a very smart girl.)

[ICNDonna]

When I graduated (more years ago than I like to think about) we were given what they called "proofs" to use to select the pictures. These were only partially developed and they faded rapidly and would turn black when exposed to light. :)

Since then, when you have pictures taken, the photographer puts together a book of all of the pictures taken, nicely developed and permanent. The cost for the book can vary, but it sounds like what this place is charging is about average. What you might do is to have your mother (or another adult) go with you, and tell him that frankly you can't afford the book, and ask if you can select the $19 picture option without removing the book from the studio. The contract is pretty clear that it's for removal of the book from the studio and if you don't take it, the $175 wouldn't apply.

Warm hugs,
Donna

[dg2901]

Like the others, I was in no way stating that this price is affordable to you, or anyone else in your situation for that matter. You asked if it was a "rip off" and I stated, based on my experiences that this seemed like a fair price.
The negotiation idea is a good place to start should you like what this particular photographer did and want to purchase a portrait. I would also bet that theres some sort of installment plan if you inquire; places who deal with students understand that payment for things such as portraits, etc is not always available in full.

take care, dear
diana

[mary124]

Can't you get your Mom's friend to take some nice pictures in a park somewhere? ( in your cap/gown; street clothes; prom dress??) That is what a friend of mine did for her girls and they turned out very nice.

Or you can go to Wal-Mart. They take some really nice pictures there, and inexpensive. You would have to provide the cap and gown, and whatever else you need. I took my Son to Wal-Mart because even for a few pictures at school it was going to be over $250 which I couldn't
afford. And then whatever the cost is for to put it in the yearbook.

Anyway, just a couple of suggestions. Hope this helps.

[yvette]

Hmmmmm Well my guess is that you pay $175.00 to take the proofs.....
you return them and that money is put towards a package.

However, you could not pay the $175.00
not take the proofs home....and then decide whether or not you want to buy a package AT the studio.


Back in 1989 I Paid $200.00 for a package, got to keep the proofs too (of course they're not touched up to remove zits and such).

I don't like the word "non-refundable" thrown in there twice. What if all the pictures suck? Sounds like you HAVE to buy something after you fork over that cash. Or lose the $175.00

Not for nothing...$175 is $175. My best advice ask til you get an answer you definitely understand.

Good luck! I really hope it all works out.....you only get one senior year! :smile tee

[green_the_fish]

That's okay, guys, I didn't mean to get defensive like that. I know you guys wrote those replies to help me out, and that you weren't trying to make me feel bad about my financial situation. I just feel really frustrated in general right now.

I talked to my friend Nikky about it earlier today, and she gave me a very surprised look and said that she had been to the same place. Nikky said that she had heard about the $20 session, and decided to go get her pictures done there. Then, they made her sign a contract and come back a week later. At that point, she said that they essentially cornered her into a Catch-22, where the only way she could get to see or buy any of her pictures was to pay the $175. She had been upset about it, but did not know what to do, so she just sucked it up and paid the money. Nikky said it was too bad that I hadn't told her that I was planning to go there earlier, or she would have warned me about them. She said they basically tricked her, and if she could go and do it over, she would definetely have steered clear of the place.

Well, hearing that was a bummer for me. First of all, my mom broadcast a thousand I told you sos in my direction. But, she's right. If I keep being a sucker, I should expect this stuff. It's like she said; I brought this on myself for being so gullible.
And, this isn't the first time I've felt like someone has taken advantage of me like this. Isn't that what every doctor I went to with my IC symptoms did? Like, do a surgery report, then lie about what was in the report, and refuse to let me see it? Didn't they not tell me what my diagnosis for over a year, although they had diagnosed me on paper? I got really upset thinking about all the times I feel that I have been misled, and I cried some. I hope I am not being a major drama queen about this. I just wanted a nice picture in the yearbook for my friends to remember me by.

Well, anyway, I know I can't pay the money, so that's out of the question. I'm kind of scared to go back, though. What if they find some way to trap me? Maybe I should just not go again. They don't have any credit card number or anything, so it's not like they can bill my mom. Even if it is what people would consider a fair price, it was still not fair to intentionally mislead Nikky and me like that. I don't trust them anymore. If they have a fair price, they should just be up-front about it. It just doesn't seem ethical the way that they went about it.

I will have to be pretty brave to try to negotiate like Sarojini said, although it sounds like a good idea. Maybe I could just get them to let me see the pictures there, and just pay them to send one to my school. I wonder if Nikky already tried that, though. Well, even if that's all I can get them to do, I guess I don't really need any prints or anything. I did already pay them the five bucks to send a picture to my school, and to get it printed there. Myabe I should just try to get them to do that for me.

I also like your suggestion, Mary. I think I will do that, after I figure out some way to get out of this mess.

Isn't IC enough without the extra drama :bonk:

[ICNDonna]

If they are advertising a special deal and not following through, I think it would be a good idea to call the Better Business Bureau in your city. They really need to clean up their act.

Donna

[BeachBaby]

Just an added thought.

I never (nor did my girls) have to sign any contract...and while there were a number of options to choose from, all photo sessions were subject to "our approval". So, they did re do them if we weren't satisfied.

I do know it might help to ask you guidance counselor or the yearbook advisor what the latest possible date is for these to be submitted. I found we had much longer, April of senior year I think. Knowing this might buy you some time to really check out the competition, negotiate or maybe save up a little money to go towards it.

You know, I agree with Yvette, while I detest my picture - EEEK! We all wore a drape and looked like Stepford HS students in black and white...it is the only senior year. Even though mine was a loooooooooooong time ago.

I do love the pictures of my girls, can't speak for them. The second photographer was much better than my eldest though. I would really look around and a friend could take tons of pics and there are so many ways to access them now. You might be able to use the features of digital, and then you can use your computer, shutterfly, etc....I bet the good photo ladies on board here could help.

It's okay if you feel defensive, it makes sense that you don't need another stressor senior year. I think we all just want to help find an option, and it upsets us that it is cost prohibitive.

[kuntrygurl78]

I dated a guy that was a younger than me just out of high school. He was poor, but wanted some senior pictures done.

So he and I headed off to a local wooded park, and I took a bunch of pictures. We just used a throw away camera. The pictures turned out really well. His mom loved them!

Sadly, he died of cancer a few years ago. I still have a copy of the pictures that I took.

I would suggest to you that you get together with one of your gal pals and head to a place that's really picturesque and take your senior pics there. Not only will it be less expensive, but it could really be a fun day for you and your friend.

I would not spend the money at the studio!

I now do photography as a hobby. Learning that I could take good pics with a generic camera gave me some confidence. I dont do anything professional, but I love to just load up a roll of film and go shoot a roll of something!

Good luck to you!

[green_the_fish]

Betsie, I also thought of that, and I asked for the final deadline. It's early November. Pretty early, huh?

I have another shot here, though. Picture retakes for the photo ID are today. I'm wearing a pretty cute outfit right now, and I have my makeup done, so I think I will go and cross my fingers for a good picture. My school photo came out horrible last year (even my friends admitted this), but it was totally cute my Freshman year (one of my favorite pictures of myself). If this picture comes out well today, though, maybe I will luck out and get to send the wallet-size to the yearbook as my senior picture. Then, I can just call the photographer and tell him to bug off.

If that doesn't work out, I think I will just go outside and have my mom or one of my friends take the pics. My mom does have a pretty good digital camera.

Donna, do you think they are using some kind of special loophole to do this? Like, maybe since they make you sign a contract, then it's legal to do? I have a feeling like they planned it out this way so they can get people legally :(

[BeachBaby]

This great thing about digitals and computers is uploading pix can is quite easy, and you are also able to tap into a number of editing options. ie; red eye, portrait size, cropping, correcting options and choice of format like size color vs sepia (my favorite) and black and white.

Also if you use a place like /shutterfly (many others available too, not only do these options exist, the account is free, you can set up albums and I think the print ordering options are reasonably priced.

Check out Shutterfly and Ofoto, etc. You might also want to pose the question to some of the regulars on the photography thread, as some there are quite skilled and might have better solutions for you, if you do this with a digital. Also, the thing I like about a digital option, is your Mom or someone else can keep shooting until you have options to choose from, w.o the cost.

BTW, the last senior package specialist we used, did all the shots within an hr, including outfit changes, etc. 2 Weeks later my daughter and I just went and viewed the entire package on her computer in a digital format. It was great cause she was able to switch back and forth between black and white/color...so we really got a great idea of what they would look like. It is a real improvement over proofs, IMO.

I know you will find a way to make this work that is less stressful and I wouldn't give that stupid contract a minutes thought...except to challenge it.

Try the "home" version, you haven't got much to lose. And I agree, November is pretty early, but I am sure they do that to get seniors motivated, as there is so much going on at the same time.

[green_the_fish]

Thank you for your continued support, Betsie! I do have a good photo editing program on my computer. Actually, I have several. Canon Photo and Picasa are my favorites. Canon Photo is best for smaller touch-ups like taking care of blemishes or red eye, while Picasa is good for adjusting things like lighting, saturation, and sharpness. There's also one called MGI PhotoSuite, as well as the default programs that came with my Dell. I like to edit photos that I take and play with all of the options. I think I have a Shutterfly account, but I haven't been there in a while. I usually just edit the pics myself and upload them to TinyPic.

Well, to add another layer to my drama, I talked to my friend Tiffany today, and she said that she also went to the same place. Tiffany said that it is definetely not a scam, because you can easily talk your way out of it. According to Tiffany, they asked her, "You want us to put this $175 deposit towards a photo package, right?" and she said, "No, I don't. I want the deposit back." Then, they just gave her the deposit back and she got a much cheaper package. She says that it's not a trap, you just have to make it clear that you don't the deposit to go towards a photo package.

So, today, I made a plan. During picture retakes for the school ID photo, I told the photographer that I'd like to order some wallet sizes of the picture she took, and she gave me a forum to fill out. I enclosed $12 dollars, as the price list said, and gave it back to her. So, now the pictures will get to me through my homeroom teacher when they are ready. That way, even if the deal with the senior pictures place falls through, I will at least have some backup photos to work with.

I didn't ask for the retouch option on the photos because, as Betsie said, I can scan them into my computer and retouch them myself, if necessary. I do have some high-quality sheets of glossy paper sitting around. But, I have a feeling that the ID photo will be pretty good, since I'm having a good hair day, and I have my makeup on.

Now that I've got a game plan, I won't feel desperate when I go my appointment with the photographer; I will feel okay with negotiating, keeping in mind that Tiffany said to be firm with them about getting back the deposit. I'll try my best to get a good deal, knowing that, if they do try to pull any funny stuff on me, like they did with Nikky, I will be able to walk away... and still have the pictures that were taken of me this morning.

I think I've got a pretty good plan. I know I can find a way to get a good picture into the yearbook!

[windwalker]

Sounds like ya have a good plan. The only other thing I was thinking through reading all this is are you 18+ and was it you that signed the contract? I don't believe its legal to get into a contract with someone under the age of 18.
Also if you want some nice pics, I did some bands photos by taking them to a local park and got some great pics with a regular camera. Using a digital with a screen, you can look at them right after they are taken and decide if u like them or delete and try again. (I did a little stint as a photographer for a cpl. studios so I had some experience and little tricks which helped)

[BeachBaby]

:smile tee

Why am I not surprised you would figure this out! And you sound like you have lots of photo experience anyway...I am such an amateur and am able to access digi sites for basic needs, etc.

Glad you can find a plan or two to work this out and love that you took advantage of a good "look" day to probably shoot some photos.

Even though we generally hate our pics many years later, I think it is something to cherish as you open up that book from time to time, and there you are and you should be! As should everyone. I hate that this has become such a burden for so many kids. The pics are so much better, but the cost reflects that.

Our pics totally sucked! The girls all wore a "drape" and they combed out hair - as if that would happen now! :rolleyes: But there I am with a really bad hairday and it feels good to look back here and there...my kids get a real kick out of it too. :lmao:

[green_the_fish]

Well, I went to my appointment today, even though I felt really sick. They asked me how I was feeling, and I gave a quick summary of how sick I had felt all day. You guys remember my post from this morning, I bet. Anyway, I thenI remembered what Tiffany mentioned, and said right away that I did not want to pay the deposit or take the book home. Then, to my surprise, they did not bug me about it anymore.
They took four "yearbook shots" and let me pick one. They weren't my favorites out of the whole collection, but they were much better than the school pictures I had last year, to say the least. I picked the one on the top left, but, when I took a closer look at it, there was a hole in the armpit. Whoops! So, I had to pick the one in the bottom left, which was still pretty good. They sent it to the yearbook for no extra cost.
There were three other pictures in the collection that my mom and I liked, so we paid $80 bucks for a package with three glossy versions of those in the nice, framable version. They didn't try to bug me or rip me off at all.
My mom said it was probably just 'cause they felt sorry for me :lmao:

But, I don't care! I got my yearbook pictures, some glossy pictures for the wall, and I can still hand out the wallet size pictures that I ordered on retake day. Drama averted :D

[BeachBaby]

Hey that's a great deal! Everything you needed and wallets too! Glad you can put this behind you now....and 30 years from now, you too will have your children saying, "Mom, what's with that hairstyle"??? Just kidding!

My kids actually crack up at their Dad's picture, but think I was a babe! Ha-ha, either they are serious or needed something from me whenever saying that! :lmao:


Drama averted :D
:lmao: :lmao:

[windwalker]

Greenie, glad it all worked out for you!!!!!

[trinklebell]

hey. i was just reading your post and i thought it was cool that i found another teenager out there who has ic. well, i'm not glad you have it, but it's nice to know i'm not the only one. i can definitley relate to your picture problem-- the rates are ridiculous!!! i'm waiting til after january to get my pics taken so well have enough money to pay for them. (we also found a place that, if you stay on the honor role in school, they give you 1/2 off the regular price.)

i am a senior in high school and live with my mother and younger sister in a two bedroom apartment. my mom is on disability since she has a lot of medical problems, one of which is that she has 3 bones in her spine that sit on top of each other; the discs in between them are basically dead. my father pays child support, but i know it's a really small amount. (my mom agreed to take a smaller amount of child support in order to gain full custody of my sister and i a couple years ago.)

the college i want to go to offers scholarships for academic performance, which i am trying to keep up with. but, i know that if you fill out a FAFSA form, it sounds like you would qualify for the gov. to give you a lot of federal aid. (i don't know how that would work out though since you're not a legal citizen/visitor yet.) do you know how close you are to getting a green card? my cousin-in-law moved here from sweden to marry and live with my cousin, so i know the process can be a pain in the neck. the wait takes forever :(

i don't know if you're state offers this, but in missouri, we get HUD (a state Housing and Urban Development program). they help us pay for portions of our rent. also, if we show them proof of expensive meds we (I) have to take, they will pay for a bigger amount of rent in order to compensate for the increased expenses. again, i know it could get screwed up 'cause of your citizenship situation, but i'm not sure. maybe you could research programs your state offers to help their people. i know our local library really helped us to find out about these types of programs.

sorry for this super loooong post!

-trinklebell