Moderate bacteria?

[PlainJane]

I was just reviewing my medical records and I never noticed this before but one result said that I had "Moderate bacteria" and that it was outside the normal ranges. That is weird because my doctor at the time always told me I had no bacteria.

What does "moderate bacteria" mean and why would a doctor not mention this?

:confused:

[Kip]

Moderate bacteria may relate to a small amount of bacteria in the sample you provided but not in sufficient numbers to cause UTI or bacterial cystitis. If this was the case your doctor may have felt it was not significant to mention as it was not high enough.

Did you have any symptoms at the time? What did your urine look like? Did you have blood tests done as well? Did they show any raised inflammatory markers such as a raised CRP or raised white cell count? (This could indictae that the bacteria found was significant enough to cause an immune response to an infection)

Have you asked your doctor why you were not told?

Kip

[ICNDonna]

Every one of us will have some bacteria. If tests taken after the "moderate bacteria" one were negative, I wouldn't worry about infection.

Donna

[PlainJane]

Kip,

Hi. Yes I had symptoms at the time. I found out a while ago I have Lyme disease too (in addition to enterrococcus bladder infection) which can cause bladder symptoms. At the time I had no idea what could possibly going on with my bladder.

I haven't asked my doctor because I switched doctors. I think all my blood tests at the time came back normal but I am not 100% sure because I have trouble reading them:confused:

Hopefully now (FINALLY!) I am on my way to getting better.

Erica

[Kip]

Lyme disease is horrible it is quite common in the Southern region of the UK in the New Forest where I am from. My father contracted it last year and it affected his muscles making him quite unwell for a few weeks. Pleased to say he has made a complete recovery and is fighting fit as I am sure you will.

At the time of you contracting the Lyme Disease and the symptoms with your bladder, it may have been that your doctor did not find sufficient enough bacterial growth in your urine to warrant that as the sole cause of your bladder symptom and that was why the comment moderate bacteria was used. Lyme disease is viral in nature and is known to excaerbate bladder problems as a lot of viral infections are. If it was a bacterial infection then a group of white cells called neutraphils would have been raised in your blood test, but if it was a viral infection it would have been different white cells.

Glad you are feeling better.
Kip

[PlainJane]

Hi Kip,

Hate to disagree about this but Lyme disease is not viral it is bacterial (it is caused by spirochete bacteria).

I am actually not feeling better yet. I contracted Lyme disease probably about 14 years ago (I'm 26 now) and it went misdiagnosed as many other things over the years. My main symptoms are bladder problems, fatigue, horrendous sleep problems. I also have low cortisol, low vitamin c, low iron, low potassium among other poblems and I'm finding that these are related to Lyme as well. My doctors had no idea why my body was falling apart. I guess 14 years of Lyme will eventually do that!

I'm glad your father is doing well. It sounds like his Lyme problem was caught early on which is actually quite rare from the reading I have done. Most people are misdiagnosed if they do not turn up with an EM rash (and indeed the majority of people don't ever get the EM rash).

Erica

[Katrina]

((((((((((((((Erica)))))))))))))

[PlainJane]

Katrina, thanks for your post. I am feeling very overwhelmed by this whole Lyme disease thing and the realization that I've had it for so many years. I'm just not quite sure what to make of it all.

Erica

[mich2604]

Hey Erica,

hang in there my lymie friend. As you know i have lyme too and group strep D in the bladder........so lovely it settled there....NOT!!!! oh and yeast as set up home there too.


in jan when all this crashed down and the bladder went crazy i saw this dr at a urgent care center near my house......he mentioned that there was significant bacteria and wbc found, yet he was puzzled that no bacteria was able to be grown. he said maybe contamination.... he wanted to try IV abx to help me out....but put me on metrogel and diflucan. A few days later i went to the ER cause i felt so sick....they found high nitrates, and said it could only be a UTI nothing else would produce nitrates.

At the time i had bacterial vaginosis yet didnt know it until culture came back a few weeks later at my gyn office. my bladder just never completly healed after that infection.

i asked the gyn what caused it...what bacteria and she said the test just says yes or no.


I just wanted to share my story with you. Lyme makes the slightest infection 10 times worse.....and reactivates a lot of dormant bacteria, viruses in our bodies too.

[PlainJane]

Hi,

I can't remember if you told me already but what meds are you on now for Lyme? I *still* haven't gotten an appointment with the Lyme doctor. I am not on any meds for Lyme just doing hyperbaric oxygen. My sleep is absolutely awful lately. I hate Lyme:(

Erica

[Kip]

Hi Kip,

Hate to disagree about this but Lyme disease is not viral it is bacterial (it is caused by spirochete bacteria).

I am actually not feeling better yet. I contracted Lyme disease probably about 14 years ago (I'm 26 now) and it went misdiagnosed as many other things over the years. My main symptoms are bladder problems, fatigue, horrendous sleep problems. I also have low cortisol, low vitamin c, low iron, low potassium among other poblems and I'm finding that these are related to Lyme as well. My doctors had no idea why my body was falling apart. I guess 14 years of Lyme will eventually do that!

I'm glad your father is doing well. It sounds like his Lyme problem was caught early on which is actually quite rare from the reading I have done. Most people are misdiagnosed if they do not turn up with an EM rash (and indeed the majority of people don't ever get the EM rash).

Erica

Hi Erica,

I don't know if we got lost in translation, I didn't say Lyme Disease was a virus, but viral in nature. In the UK this means it is associated with a lot of other symptoms similar to how you have described your symptoms and certainly how my father presented with it was typical of what medics would consider viral in nature but he contracted it through a tick bite, the bacteria then attacked a weakened area previously affected by a virus causing viral like symptoms. This is why this disease is often so difficult to diagnose as it presents in this way.

My father was unable to do anything for about 6 months and still experiences fatigue although his other symptoms appear to have resolved.

Kip

[PlainJane]

Hi Kip,

I guess I still don't understand what you mean by viral. I'm confused!

Did you know that there is actually software doctors can use to help diagnose patients? It isn't very costly. It is about 700$/year to run and it can be quite helpful. The doctor enters the symptoms and the computer comes up with a list of possible diagnoses. I can't help but wonder if my doctor had used that maybe it wouldn't have taken 14 years to get a proper diagnosis. My mind cannot even grasp the number of people who are misdiagnosed year after year when they have lyme disease. So yeah it is easy to misdiagnose especially if doctors don't use all possible tools available to them. But what do I know, I didn't got to medical school :dizzy:

Erica

[mich2604]

hey erica- im currently off abx treating for yeast. my bladder seems to be a bit better.......i think the yeast invaded the urethra and bladder along with eveyrthig else. I cant take abx without getting horrid yeast. I forget are you still taking ruth's abx?

I was misdiagnosed too......and some nites like tonite i get very angry about it. I mean i was just driving to the movies and was overcome with symptoms. ive never heard of such a thing......it took 3 months for it to move to my bladder.

[PlainJane]

Hi,

I'm sure you've probably already told me (I have no memory these days) but when do you think you contracted Lyme?

I get very upset/angry about all the misdiagnoses too some days and other days I'm okay. Yesterday was one of those days I was upset about it. I have only known I have Lyme for under two months now so this diagnosis is quite new for me and I don't think I've fully processed the whole thing yet.

I am still on antibiotics prescribed by Ruth: nystatin, 500 mgs Augmentin, 500 mgs amoxicilin daily.

Erica

[mich2604]

I cant even stay on abx.......but im better on antifungal so i have no clue if i still even have the lyme.

I was bit in 2000 i saw the tick my bf at the time removed it.

i got terribly sick while on vacation in the pocono mtn in PA last august 2005.

was over come by something while driving to the movies....felt dizzy , arms tingling, hot, felt like i was going to pass out, was a bit dizzy.... i thought it was low blood sugar or something. for a few days after that i had pain in the back of my head, motion sickness....heavy head feeling. I got back home and my mouth felt numb...trouble swallowing, eyes couldnt focus.

more trouble hit when my dr put me on zithromax cause he thought i had inner ear, he prescribed a steroid too. I had a horrible 'allergic' reaction on day 3...all symptoms got worse my mouth was so numb i could not swallow...felt like i couldnt breathe but was. ER docs said no allergic reaction, my doc and nueor said yes. My sensitivity to light begain then and some bladder problems. I often wonder if that was a herx reaction.


Its tough dealing with lyme. The ups and downs are what bother me the most and not knowing if it is still the lyme affecting me.

[PlainJane]

Sorry to hear you are still sick! I'm not sure if what you had was a herx reaction or a reaction to the steroids or what. That's very confusing. I will have to post more later when I am not so tired.

Take care,

Erica

[peaceplease]

Hi:
PlainJane, do you think your Lyme is what is causing the IC symptoms or do you think it is the other bacteria found?
My understanding is that Lyme can cause IC symptoms, so do you think that is the problem with your bladder (i.e. from the Lyme?)

[PlainJane]

Hi,

I think the problem is both Lyme and enteroccocus. However my gut feeling is that the Lyme is doing most of the damage. Let me explain -- one year prior to my full blown IC type symptoms I had bladder problems. I would wake up at night to pee, my bladder felt irritated and I had to pee A LOT! That lasted for about four months and then just went away (this is characteristic of Lyme symptoms as they wax and wane unlike a bladder infection). I do not think I had enterococcus at that time. I just had no idea what was going on and was relieved it went away. It was gone for a year and then I went through severe stress (and I mean severe!) and the symptoms came back. It is my understanding that the Lyme really took hold during/after that stressful episode and that is what caused a relapse in the bladder symptoms (as well as whole new symptoms like extreme fatigue, etc).

So yeah I think the Lyme is really causing a lot of the symptoms but I am sure the enterrococcus is playing a role too.

Erica

[peaceplease]

Hi PlainJane:
So, are you feeling any better at all? Are you on antibiotics for the enterococcus? When you found out you had this did you do a broth and if so, I am curious as to how you gave your urine specimen? Was it a cleancatch midstream speciman or a catheter sample?
How is your bladder feeling now? Any improvements at all? Is the amoxicillan and augementin helping? Have you had a broth reculture since starting the meds and if so what did it show? I ask all of this as I feel I have turned over most all stones in terms of ruling out all sorts of stuff that could be causing my bladder problems, the only stone left unturned is Lyme. I don't really think I have many of the Lyme symptoms and my bladder does not wax and wane, it is a constant thing. I also think the Lyme testing is very spotty and MANY people will test positive due to exposure, but not be sick from Lyme. So, even if I did test positive who is to say that Lyme is causing my bladder problems. Most people with Lyme try to kill off the bacteria and build their immune system. Lyme is afterall really a clinical diagnosis more than anything based on symptoms.
What are your exact Lyme symptoms?
Sorry about all the questions, you can pm me if you prefer.

[PlainJane]

Hi peaceplease,

I am not feeling any better at all. I am on antibiotics for the enterococcus. I am taking 500 mgs augmentin and 500 mgs amoxicillin as well as nystatin (and of course probiotics!)

I found I have enterococcus through a broth culture. I did a regular urine catch (not cath). I took a very thorough shower before giving the sample and was exceedingly careful.

My bladder is better some days than others but never normal. It has never gone back to normal. The only time it was good was for about 1-2 days when I was on treatment by Dr.Toth. For those 2 days it went back to normal - it was glorious!

Lately I am having a lot of urgency. I also get what I think are spasms after I urinate. I can feel some type of spasm (not painful but I can feel it) and then my bladder leaks. My main bladder symptoms are frequency, incontinence (mild), nocturia and urgency. My bladder symptoms usually get WAY worse the week before my period (I'm not sure if that is hormonal or has to do with the lifecycle of the spirochete or both!).

The amoxicillin/augmentin might be helping but I sure can't feel it helping. The improvement might be so minimal I am not aware of it. However, I am still running to the bathroom (sometimes seriously running!) and my bladder is still ruling my life.

I just repeated the broth culture on Tuesday and do not have the results yet.

My main Lyme symptoms are: bladder, debilitating fatigue and horrendous sleep problems. To give you an idea of the sleep problems -- I had a sleep lab done about a year ago. I managed to sleep just under 4 hours and in that time I had 56 awakenings. So as you can imagine it is horrible. This sleep problem has been with me in one form or another for over a decade. It has been relentless. I've tried a lot of things for it with very little or no success.

I also have VERY low cortisol (so low I was being investigated for Addison's disease), low iron, low vitamin c, and low potassium, low thyroid. According to my research these are all related to Lyme (except maybe the iron?)

In the past I have had depression (for years and years basically since I was 14 years old - I'm now 26. The depression has actually lifted within the past 2 years), mania (induced by antidepressants or alcohol. This is how I got the bipolar diagnosis), swollen and painful knees, concentration problems, severe TMJ (still have this problem), ringing in my ears, swollen lymph glands (at one point my lymph gland was swollen to the size of a golfball- very painful and I had to have a biopsy on it done). I have also had recurrent infections (strep throat, bladder infections).

I am sorry if I am repeating myself on some of these things it's just that I can't remember what I posted last time so there you have it. That should be a more complete list. To put it plainly even that list cannot come close to describing all the things I have gone through with this beast of an illness. I have had many unexplained medical problems over the years and every one I now understand is or can be associated with Lyme.

And I have yet to find an effective treatment. I am just over halfway through my first 40 sessions of hyperbaric and I am not getting any relief. But it may just be too soon to expect relief considering I have been sick in one way or another for 14 years. I have been absolutely beaten down by this thing over the past 2 years. I hope to get some relief soon enough.

Hope I answered all your questions! What are your main symptoms?

Take care,

Erica

[Katrina]

Lately I am having a lot of urgency. I also get what I think are spasms after I urinate. I can feel some type of spasm (not painful but I can feel it) and then my bladder leaks. My main bladder symptoms are frequency, incontinence (mild), nocturia and urgency. My bladder symptoms usually get WAY worse the week before my period (I'm not sure if that is hormonal or has to do with the lifecycle of the spirochete or both! are you straining when you go? A spasm after you urinate sounds like you are....you need to relax those pelvic muscles!:grouphug:

I hear low potassium can cause some IC symtpoms....you may want shots!! :grouphug: Pretty sure low thyroid can to:grouphug:

I know nothing about lyme but I know I have been iron deficient anemic and have to take iron suppliemnts....I find they can be a pain to take because they need so much water to disolve and acid.....with that in mind maybe it is that puts you at risk of being iron deficient?? Mine I know is from blood loss....loosing blood in urine?

Sure hope that you get some relief soon Erica!:grouphug:

[mich2604]

Katrina- do you know what IC symptoms are caused by the low potassium.

i have this too from the lyme disease.

thanks

[PlainJane]

Katrina,

I think what might be happening is that when I get the feeling of urgency I tighten up my pelvic muscles. I think you are right about those pelvic muscles. I don't notice that I strain when I urinate however it is totally possible that I am straining and not realizing it.

Thanks for your reply.

Erica

[Katrina]

Potassium is crucial for controlling water and acid balance in the body...that is possibly why it is suspicious it could effect IC symptoms these are the common symptoms...please note potassium defiency is uncommon.

Symptoms of potassium deficiency include fatigue, slow reflexes, muscle weakness and dry skin.
Acne, constipation, depression, edema, excessive water consumption, fatigue, glucose intolerance, high cholesterol levels, insomnia, mental impairment, muscle weakness, nervousness, poor reflexes

[jah]

Do not trust one test...keep going back for more tests....if I have learned anything it is that you cannot trust one doctor...or one test. Get a 3rd, 4th, and 5th opinion...and keep going. Doctors can be complacent; they are only human--you have to be your own doctor. We are all so lucky we have the internet.



I was just reviewing my medical records and I never noticed this before but one result said that I had "Moderate bacteria" and that it was outside the normal ranges. That is weird because my doctor at the time always told me I had no bacteria.

What does "moderate bacteria" mean and why would a doctor not mention this?

:confused:

[PlainJane]

Jah,

I totally agree with that we are SO lucky to have the internet. I would be lost without the internet.

Ah, I've seen 19 doctors (most of those being specialists including 5 urologists and a urogynecologist). They haven't had any answers for me. However I do think this Lyme thing could be causing or contributing to my bladder symptoms.... diagnosis I guess is half the battle (it took me 2.5 years to find out about Lyme). Treatment is the other half.... don't know what kind of treatment to do yet.