Yeast affects IC

[Katrina]

http://www.ic-network.com/images/presidentsaward2006.jpg
(Presidents Note - This posting received received our presidents award for it's practical tips and suggestions it provides to patients struggling with yeast! Bravo Katrina!)

I got a huge amount of requests for this so here it is:

Yeast and Interstitial Cystitis Connection

There are a lot of thoughts concerning the connection between Interstitial Cystitis (IC) and Yeast. We are sure that many patients with IC complain of yeast infection symptoms and when a yeast infection is present it can often cause an IC flare. It is not known whether yeast is a possible cause of IC. Nonetheless, it is one aspect worth informing patients about
Yeast produces a toxin, which is a bladder irritant. It doesn’t matter much where the yeast is in a patient’s body for the toxin to bother their bladder. Thus yeast infections are an aspect of IC that bother many and can cause bad flare ups. Most IC patients have had numerous antibiotics so we know that a number have yeast.
I am not directing this only to women, although women are often more aware of their yeast infections. I do know some men diagnosed with IC that were helped by probiotics. Some points of avoiding yeast may pertain only to women. Everyone should look into the possibility of yeast within their body, affecting their symptoms.
One possible theory as the cause of IC is that after yeast infections (which we know women get many of) the yeast, or the toxins the yeast emits, imbed themselves deep into the bladder making them undetectable. This theory is not given much merit anymore as far as yeast alone being the cause. It does stand though that yeast may give an allergic reaction that causes inflammation in some individuals.
The toxins released by yeast can be a problem if there is too much yeast anywhere. It can bother some even if the amount is normal. For that reason, treating yeast can be an aspect of treatment for IC that any patient with IC may want to try at some point.
Even if it does not help a patient’s IC to treat yeast when they do not have a yeast infection (vaginal yeast), when a vaginal yeast infection is present it can cause a big flare up. For me, a yeast infection causes me to have burning during urination before I notice any other symptom. It also can cause the pelvic floor muscles to spasm. Together that can mean a lot of pain. Reports from other patients have called a vaginal yeast infection their worse flare. Read the poll on Yeast Infections in IC patients
A yeast infection can cause urgency, frequency and urethral burning. It may also cause fatigue, abdominal bloating and gas. With that list an IC patient has good reason to try to prevent a yeast infection!
So why do so many women with IC get yeast infections so frequently that they are on constant treatment for them? The frequent antibiotics may be one factor. The problems that each bacterial and yeast infection causes us, may make us seek more treatment than average. Many of us seem to have a weakened immune system. Also since hormonal imbalance seems to be another factor in IC, which makes women more vulnerable to yeast.
For that reason just being aware of the different options in treating yeast infections is important for many IC patients.
• Probiotics
• Nystatin
• Diflucan
• AZO Yeast
• Boric Acid and Aci-gel (These are only IC friendly inserted in the vagina when there is a yeast infection and can be a risk otherwise)
• Herbal anti yeast supplements such as Garlic or oregano oil.
Probiotics are friendly bacteria. Most people eat them in yogurt to help yeast infections. They are a great way to avoid getting a yeast infection and can be bought in supplement form. They come in many different strengths, and the refrigerated non-dairy kinds are considered best. It is important to mention them with IC patients since because antibiotics usually kill friendly bacteria probiotics are a necessary part of treatment. They can prevent you from exchanging a bacterial infection for a yeast infection. You may notice that I did not mention Monistat. Most non-prescription vaginal creams are not IC friendly and are irritants for IC patients.
Many patients with IC are vulnerable to other problems as well and for that reason I think it is important to mention that it may not be a yeast infection. Other things that mimic a yeast infection such as bacterial vaginosis, vulvodynia, and vulvar vestibulitis.
IF you are certain it is a vaginal yeast infection and you are still desperate for more help with symptoms there is some self-help that may work. Yeast likes warm, moist, places so keep dry and try ice.
• Try 100% cotton underwear
• Avoid hot baths
• Dry well after baths, showers, sex, and such.
• Wear skirts (with no underwear while at home).
• Change towels daily.
• Avoid tampons
• Cleanse the vaginal area morning and night.
• Always use unscented white soap to cleanse.
• Don’t wear tight clothing
• Avoid yeast, sugar, refined carbohydrates, and colorings in your diet.
• For the oral thrush change you tooth brush
There are many aspects as to how yeast affects an IC patient’s life, more so if you are a woman. Everyone should pay attention to yeast in their diet, and may want to try yeast treatments as part of their IC treatment. Yeast has been a big aspect of IC for both men and women. Since yeast can be anywhere in the body and still affect the bladder, if you have increased symptoms when you eat dairy, yeast, sugar, or refined carbohydrates, yeast may be increasing your symptoms. If you have a lot of gas, be a sign you have yeast in your body. Some of you may already know that yeast is a problem for you. Cleansing your body of yeast is hard but something you may want to think about.

[Sarojini]

Thanks Katrina :grouphug: Great post :)

[hoping4acure]

excellent post Katrina!

This has so much information. Thank you!

[Katrina]

Thank you! That means a lot :):)

[icnmgrjill]

Ironic that I was off work for four days last week due to a yeast infection. I have a resistent candida glabrata, the result of doing extensive antibiotics several years ago foolishly. When it flares, it IS AGONY! I agree, not only is the pain as bad, if not worse, than an IC flare... but it also triggers bladder spasms, frequency and then some.

Why did it flare?? Honestly, I just started eating alot of sugars and carbos again... due to some birthdays earlier this month in my family. If I have ice cream more than a few days in a row, it almost always flares the yeast.

Luckily, I was able to take diflucan for several days which stopped it. But, what frustrates me more than anything else is that any cream that I try to use (including the mandatory nystatin that I use on the outside) creates massive burning of my perineal area. It felt like I'd been scrubbed raw with a steel wool pad. Once I stop the creams... it takes a few days to go away. So... for me.... I find that I'm exquisitely sensitive to creams.

I agree with all of the self help tips and would also add one. I use a perineal wash bottle (filled with cold water) to rinse myself off everytime I use the restroom. I find that the tissues get so irritated by urine and toilet paper, that I can burn for minutes afterwards. But, by rinsing off with water and then patting dry, the area is much less traumatized and the burning is much reduced.

I can't say that I know of any direct relationship between yeast and it's ability to cause IC. I truly doubt that it can. But, it certainly creates a secondary, and extremely painful, infection in those traumatized tissues.

To everyone else struggling with yeast, I wish you well!

[Dixiefireball]

GREAT POST as usual Katrina you always go that ex mile.
Thanks
Rhonda

[creatingkarma]

Great advice, Katrina! Thanks!

[Carol Junco]

There is a new medication that is now over the counter. It is called RepHresh. It is a vaginal lubricant that helps to maintain vaginal pH. This can also help with those who are prone to yeast infections. I have tried this and it works very well. It is very new but Walgreens and CVS pharmacies are supposed to carry it. You can also buy this from the internet.

[sami4]

Great post Katrina, thanks for sharing.
When I have a really bad yeast infection the only thing that soothes my poor urethra and vulva is Nystatin and Triamcinolone acetonide cream .
Also the post that mentioned taking several Diflucans is right on. A pox on the stupid docs that give you one 150 mg Diflucan and think that is enough for a bad yeast infection.
I got so discusted over this nonsense @#$%^&*
Sure feels like that yeast goes right up into the bladder.
Sammie

[sweetangel2080]

just read this - so you can have frequency and burning with yeast infections - had no idea!!

[Katrina]

I always have burning with a yeast infection...first symptom I notice before the itching! I hardly ever let it get bad enough to go past that...but if it did yes the discomfort could lead to spasms (frequency) and could possibly cause you to be tighter causing retention which leads to frequency.....many IC symptoms can get worse because of yeast infection. :grouphug:

[Katrina]

probiotic shopping
I have been getting some questions about buying a probiotic so I am working on some helpful info.

Make sure you can get it cold
Buy it cold
store it cold
higher amount of bacteria is better
figuring out the right dose for you may be a challenge. You may need to work yourself up to a strength to help cleanse your body and than go back down to a maintenance dose.




BRAND NAMES:
Acidophilase
American Health.......................approximately 20 billion
Blackmores
Country Life..............approximately 3.5 billion
Culturelle...................Guaranteed at least 10 Billion
Dan Active
DDS-Plus.........4 billion
Eniva................14 billion
Enzymatic Therapy...................1 billion
Ethical Nutrients
Fem Dophilus
Ferzym
Flora-Q.........at the time of manufacture, a minimum of 8 billion and by the expiration date at least 4 billion.
FloraMore.........6 billion
Ganeden - Primal Defense
Herbalife
HLC
iFLORA...........1.5 billion (too low in my eyes)
ImmuneEnhancer Arabinogalactan
In-Liven
Inner health.....15 billion
Inner health plus.... 25 billion
Jarrow.................8 billion
Kal
KE-99 Lacto.............10 billion
Kyo-Dophilus.................1.5 billion (too low in my eyes)
Lactobacillus Sporogenes
Longest Living.........1 billion (too low in my eyes)
MotherNature.com
Natren
Natural Factors............10 billion
New Chapter
Nutraceutical Sciences Institute (NSI)
Primal Defense
Protexin............180 million (too low in my eyes)
Protract
Schiff
Solaray
Solgar
Theralac...........20 billion
ThreeLac
Topfer Forte
Ultra Bifidus
Ultra Dophilus DF............15 billion
Ultra Flora Plus.........15 billion
VSL Pharmaceuticals VSL3............ 450 billion
Wellness Works

Other things to think about: some are made from dairy but have the dairy taken out. Some are of human origin. Most of the strong kinds will come in a powder meant to be disolved in a food...preferably cold. Some will have a capsul choice some come in a liquid.

[sami4]

Katrina:
Excellent, excellent posts. I love the probiotics list and what a great thing to take shopping as it cuts through all the advertisement hype. I have had good results with the FREELAC and probably will try some of the others on your list.
Every, single miserable IC flareup I have had has been caused by a yeast infection.
I am now experimenting with REPLENS which is a vaginal moisturizer that keeps the vagina at a normal PH and there by inhibits yeast & bacteria. I have been alternating days with vaginal estrogen cream. So far I have been yeast free for two months.
I think another poster also mentioned a moisturizer that keeps PH up. You do need estrogen cream as well though if you are menopausal as the moisturizer does not keep the vaginal cells estroginized.
One thing about Replens is that is causes cells of vaginal wall to slough off which are the old dead cells. This does cause a weird clumping of white matter that could be mistaken for yeast, as it looks curdy, it isnt, just product and cell fallout.
Sammie

[A.J.]

thank you for posting this. the new doctor I'm seeing is convinced that IC is directly linked with yeast overgrowth in the body. I've been taking jarrow-dophilous brand pills for 4 months now, and I haven't felt better since before my IC was diagnosed. ladies (and gentlemen!), please considering trying acidopholous if you haven't yet. it's been my LIFESAVER, and I have returned to a normal life. I thank God my doctor has helped me so much. good luck!

[Katrina]

That is great news A.J.!!!!!!!! I am ammazed at how well probiotics are helping my Ulcerative pouchitis....if I miss a dose I bleed...but with it normal! I am hoping that my IBS symptoms will all clear up too but finding the right dose right now is a long process. :grouphug: I know I have been able to tollerate more acidic food lately so maybe it is having an affect on my IC ....not sure but tollerating more foods is a great thing to me :) :)

[grace 2]

I am wondering... you read so much conflicting info. What is the best way to take a probiotic? I've read, with food, after a meal, on an empty stomach. I've read that different things can kill the good bacteria before getting to where it needs to go, such as vitamin c, antifungals etc. Anyone who has been able to tell if theirs is working, how do you take it? Thanks :) And thanks Katrina for all the great info! Grace

[Katrina]

I would agree that the best way is not around things like vitamin C....mine recommends with cold food.or drink...but if your taking a capsul empty stomach may be better....if your taking a powder that you put into the food than it will obsorb better but if it is a capsul I think it may do better away from food...but with drink.

I am certain mine is working....and I am so thrilled with the result! I usually disove it in milk or small amount water...while eating something ....but not something too warm.

[Vampireness]

I found Primal Defense online and the nutrition facts states critic acid as one of it. I thought that effects IC???

[Katrina]

I agree...if it has citric acid it is not a good choice for us. That list is to compare...I don't recommend them all...I couldn't find the info I wanted to know on primal defense that is why I didn't put anything there yet. I would not orally take anything with citric acid unless I had to.

[grace 2]

I just recently went back to using primal defense, and after reading the post about the citric acid searched the label on the bottle and can't find citric acid as an ingredient. I use the caplets. Maybe it was in a different product put out by the same company??

[creatingkarma]

Straight from the bottle - Primal Defense:

Barley Grass, Oat Grass, Lactobacillus plantarum, Bifidobacterium difidum, Bifidobacterium lactis, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium breve, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus salivarius, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Lactobacillus paracasei, Bifidobacterium longum, Ionic plant based minerals. Other ingredients: Calcium carbonate, croscarmellose, sodium, silica, stearic magnesium stearate (vegetable source), vegetable coating, bacterial protease, probiotic cultures. Contains NO artificial colors or preservatives. 100% Vegetarian.

[Katrina]

Thanks Karma!....do you other info like bacteria amount?

[emilyrose197377]

Great post Katrina.

[Vampireness]

Ok here is where I found the critic acid contain Primal Defense:


Nutrition Facts:
Serving Size: 1 caplet
Servings Per container 45
45 caplets per bottle
Total Calories 0
Sodium 5 mg
Iron (from Ionic Plant Based Minerals) 2.3 mg
Proprietary HSO Probiotic Blend 610 mg: Barley Grass Oat Grass, Lactobacillus plantarum, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacgerium lactis, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacteium breve, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus salivarius, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Lactobacillus paracasei, Bifidobacterium longum.
Ionic Plant Based Minerals 285 mg
Other Ingredients: Fermented Molasses, calcium carbonate, croscarmellose sodium, silica, magnesium stearate (vegetable source), vegetable coating (vegetable gum, dextrose, lecithin, citric acid), bacterial proteases, probiotic cultures.

So that looks like a breakdown of the vegetable coating to me.

[grace 2]

I have a question about AZO yeast. Is it used to kill yeast or just to treat the itching & burning, kind of like vagasil. It was kind of confusing when I read the label. Thanks!

[Katrina]

I blieve it helps create a balance that makes it harder for yeast to stick around ......it may also have some things that treat symptom I don't know.

[grace 2]

Thanks Katrina :)

[Vampireness]

grace -

Indications:
Daily use can help avoid and relieve the symptoms of burning and itching associated with vaginal yeast infections.

[lauraads]

Has anyone tried AZO Yeast yet? I just bought a bottle but have not tried it yet. I hate trying new things with IC as it either helps, does nothing, or hurts. Don't really love those odds!

Also, quite a nice list of probiotics but are there any that those with IC have found success with? I tried Kyo-dophilus and believe it is what bothered my bladder as I did nothing else different. Need to find something asap.

Thanks!

[Katrina]

Yes I have tried AZO yeast.....I don't recommend taking a handful at once but taking as direction say never bothered my IC.

I hear that Threelac is good one...never tried it myself but it has been recommended by many and sounds good from my research.

:grouphug: Everything is a risk...hope things work out well for you!
I take VSL#3...loving it!

[Vampireness]

Laura - Hey Laura!!!!!! I'm so glad to see you online!!! I forgot to reply your email...sorry, but I will.

Are you on antibiotics now? What has happened so far with all the appointments?

I hope the AZO does not make your bladder worse.....

Keep us updated! Good luck!!!

[lauraads]

Thanks again! I will be going to the health store to find one of these (or ordering online).

[Vampireness]

Thanks again! I will be going to the health store to find one of these (or ordering online).

Good luck!!!

[natalie2006]

i got one the other day called Ultimate Flora 50 Billion, Vagional Spport and Urinary Tract Support.

[natalie2006]

Can a yeast infection happen right before your period? I notice some white discharge right before my period. I also have IC and VV.

[A.J.]

Can a yeast infection happen right before your period? I notice some white discharge right before my period. I also have IC and VV.

same exact thing for me. I know yeast infections are much more common before my period.

[Katrina]

Yes, I believe Sammie said progesterone is high right before our periods which makes us more vulverable. :grouphug:

[Vampireness]

Interesting!!!

[lauraads]

Well, I haven't tried the AZO yet or bought a new probiotic. I started having trouble with my neurontin (and my bladder) so I'm trying to let my system calm down. I actually had to add fruit back in and it made some of my symptoms that were yeast go away. Don't ask me; I don't get it. I found a yeast specialist in my area and am going to set an appointment when I get back from a conference in DC I am headed to on Sunday. Hope to get it sorted out.

Also, on another IC list I heard that many people had bladder symptoms the first month they were on a probiotic and that this seemed to be it was doing it's job and they were having 'die off'. I don't relish the thought of having more discomfort, but I guess it is something to think about!

Hi, Vampireness. I'm guilty of not getting back to you now! Thanks for checking on me; it's slow going but at least I am losing weight (18 pounds since 5/1) and exercising every day!

[natalie2006]

Katrina I have Vulva Vestibulitis. And IC . You were saying that VVS can mitic a yeast infection? I have burning, white stuff, itching. Could that be the yeast infection or VVS? I take Probiotis and Acid stuff and eat yogert every day. AZO Yeast.

[sami4]

Its impossible to know what you have without a wet prep under a microscope. Yeast is more common before a period due to the higher level of progesterone and the fall in estrogen which changes the vaginal PH.
All this stuff can mimic each other. Worst bladder flares I ever had turned out be yeast infections. VV also is very aggravated by yeast. Thats why without a pelvic and smear its impossible to speculate what it is.
sammie

[Katrina]

I agree with Sammie, if you have any doubt you need to get a culture. Some people have done a huge amount of stuff to prevent yeast and still are vulnerable to yeast sometimes.....the only way to know what is going on for sure is a culture. I do think we have instincts about what is going on in our bodies so trust those instincts and if you are unsure get that culture!!!

[kjd]

hi there

does the jarrow-dophilous that you take actually stop thrush. I cant seem to get rid of it and it always causes me to have a bad flare!

thanks x

[Vampireness]

Katrina I have Vulva Vestibulitis. And IC . You were saying that VVS can mitic a yeast infection? I have burning, white stuff, itching. Could that be the yeast infection or VVS? I take Probiotis and Acid stuff and eat yogert every day. AZO Yeast.

Do you tolerate yoghurt, I thought it's a problematic food?
Acid stuff? Yeah you could check the stuff they mentioned because I'm unsure about Vulva VEstibulitis but maybe higher count of probiotics, since you take probiotics and eat yoghurt.

[sami4]

An active thrush infection will not be cleared up with probiotics, you need medication. once cleared up then probiotics will help a lot. I would even break open a probiotic capsule and put a little in water and swish it around in my mouth. Be sure and wash your toothbrush (I cycle mine in the diswasher once a week by itself) or get a new brush so you are not reinfecting yourself.
Sammie

[amialsmom]

Hi all, I went to my local vitamin store and they suggested PB 8 pro-biotic acidophilus for life. It's made by nutrition now. They don't list how many million or billion are in each capsule. The lady who owns the store has been taking it for 10 years now. Loves it. She said it is their best seller. I looked it up on line and it won the 2006 VITY award and is listed as America's #1 probiotic. It comes in capsule form on the shelf. Has anyone tried it? I'm going to try it out starting tomorrow, when my stomach is more empty. I'll let you know what I think!

[natalie2006]

Hello I take Ulimate Flora 50 Billion Cultures for Vaginal and Bladder Support. I love it. You can find it on line for 21.00 for 30 days. I well take this product until I die. And I also eat yogert and Garlic.:smile tee

[amialsmom]

Hi Natalie2006,
Do you remember how long it took before you started feeling better on the probiotics? You seem to be doing well on them! Thanks!

[natalie2006]

No not really but I took them for 2 months and didn't have a yeast infection and I justed started them back up again. Can you get a yeast infection for eating cream cheese?

[amialsmom]

I don't believe cream cheese can cause a yeast infection. Maybe because you went off the probiotics, your good bacteria went down, and you became vulnerable to yeast. I know I have a terrible yeast flare the week before my period. It seems like a good idea to always stay on the probiotic. I'm not one to take herbs or supplements, but this one I believe in.

[natalie2006]

does blue cheese have any yeast in it?

[Katrina]

I don't know......sugar and starches feed yeast. Something doesn't necessasarily have yeast in it to help yeast grow....but I don't understand enough about food to answer that question as well as it should be. Sorry :grouphug:

[Trishann]

Katrina, my dad has been in the hospital for a month and had been taken antibotic because infection set in due to having hip replacement surgery. While in the hostipal he got C-diff. which I do not know the correct name for it, but it causes the bad bugs take over. Guess what they gave him to eat Y O G U R T.

Hugs, Trishann

[massagedoula]

I just looked up Threelac and found that it has LEMON JUICE powder in it? Also, Jarrow-dophilus (great brand-I have my husband take it!) contains 2% vitamin C! I have been afraid to try it myself. I flared horribly on HLC, then I found out that it was the FOS (fructoooligosaccharides) that were bothering my bladder after trying other brands. So far the only one I have taken that has not bothered me was Kyo-dophilus, but at 1.5 billion, I would like to find a higher potency probiotic. I am going to look into the PB8. Any other ideas?

[grace 2]

Hi, The FOS bothered me too. I read somewhere that it can cause gas and that is always a problem for my bladder. I've been using Ultra Flora Plus DF. It has 15 billion, but so far I only use a half of one. Not sure if it's helped anything yet. Hope you find something that works for you! Any one out there use any certain brand that they could tell a difference with?? Like fewer yeast infections??

[amialsmom]

Hi. I was taking PB8. It didn't seem to help my yeast enough. But my bowels and bladder felt pretty good. It contains chicory root insteasd of FOS. I have been on Ultimate Flora 50 billion for vaginal and bladder support made by Renew Life. It contains FOS, and they are enteric coated to release in the intestine.I take one usually every other day or every 2 days, except the week before my period when I need one every day. ( My yeast flares up horrible the week before from hormones and tends to linger all month, just enough to annoy me and not want to have sex.) It has been amazing. For the first time in years I have no itching in the vaginal area. It actually feels normal. Sex felt normal again too. They worked right away for me, even when I was feeling very yeasty. ( I'm happy because I can't use creams,they don't work for me and they burn my urethra terribly. Diflucan works ok, but the doctors never seem to want to give you enough of it and it is quite toxic to the liver.) Make sure you look over the ingredients to see if any of it would bother you. I do find myself to be a little gassy from them, but I don't care as long as I'm not hurting from that dreaded yeast! They are quite pricey about 35.00 for 30 capsules. I bought them from the local vitamin store in the refrigerated section. They can be purchased online for about 21.00. I haven't done that yet. Good Luck I hope you find something that works.

[sami4a]

Blue cheese is not on the IC diet and blue veins are a type of mold of the Penicillium variety. If you are yeast sensitive you probably are also mold sensitive and shouldnt eat it.
Sammie

[redfaced]

I read in the Pain Free 1-2-3 book that taking Difulcan for three months is a good help for IC. Has anyone tried taking it for that length of time?

[Katrina]

redfaced, yes I took Diflucan for that length of time.....it didn't cure my IC or completely clean me out of yeast but the amount of yeast went down. I ended up having better luck with a strong probitoic ....maybe some of yeast wasn't Diflucan treatable? Anyway, yes I have but my doctor didn't want to continue on longer because some of test results were changing in liver area. They have gone back to normal now.

[Angeles]

I've been having this stubborn yeast for 2 months on and off but now it is just there and so hard to get rid off.A few questions:
Diflucan: I've been on diflucan also on and off during that time but now I'm taking diflucan 200 mg for 8 days in a row.
I didn't know people could take it for 3 months!
were you taking the 200 mg or the $150? daily?

Yeast creams: I don't hink I'll ever bother with yeast creams again they are a complete waste of $ (althoug they mask the symptoms).This time they didn't work at all.

Boric acid:I have tried Boric acid in the past and will ask my dr to prescribe me some next week. I'm just so sore now that I'm not sure if I should put anyhting on there. On the other hand the yeast eating me alive so I have to get rid of it.

Diet: the yeast diet + the IC diet---Is there anytthing else left to eat? I'm only 100 lb.

PROBIOTICS: Ireally need to know what is the strongets probitic ever and I'll check w/ my dr if I can take b/c I've been on probiotics since decenber last year and still get yeast. I was taking Mega flora 20 billiom.
:help: Now I'm on Tryninty 25 billion...
SOAP: I use dove uncested. Twice a day. bottle wash with cool water a few times a day.Shoudl I use soap at all during a bad infection????

[Katrina]

I was on the lowest dose and I thought that was 100mg
Yeast creams are not normally ICfriendly.
The strongest probiotic out there is in a class all its own and you should definatly talk to your doctor before taking. It is VSL#3 and it 450 billion cells per packet. I take two of those a day. I think it has done great things for my health.

I don't know of soap having any specific effect on yeast but moisture does so stay as dry as possible!!!

One big thing....you may want a culture of the yeast to be sure it is sensitive to Diflucan before taking it....something else may work a lot better. :grouphug:

[A.J.]

I've had frequent yeast infections since I was very young, soon after my period started at least. Doctors prescribed me Diflucan and it worked when I got the infections. Now that I have IC (and still a big yeast problem), Diflucan does nothing for me. I take acidopholous which doesn't help all the time but works much better than anything else I've found.

[Angeles]

One big thing....you may want a culture of the yeast to be sure it is sensitive to Diflucan before taking it....something else may work a lot better.

Thanks Katrina, are you referring to another eyast medication similar to diflucan that may work better?
Like in the post below yours, before IC my yeast responde to 1 diflucan, now it doesn't I don't know if it just got stronger or it is another type.
I'm so sore that I couldn't sleep last night, it hurst so much like never before. It hurts when I walk when I drive all the time. It hurs after a I pee, the toilet paper hurts.
I'll ask my doctor about VSL#3 and I hope he agrees, but I think he doesn't belive in probiotics, nystatin and such.

Has anyone tried douching with yogurt or water mixed with probiotics? I don't know if I'd try that...I'm curious. I dounched once last week but with a mix that conatians boric acid, very mild.

Next week I'm suppose to be on my period so I'm worried that the yeast will get even worse. I'll probbably have to stay on diflucan until I get my period.
Or It may be a good idea to try to skip my period this time. Starting the pills this sunday instead of having a week break but I have never done that. Need to call my dr.

[Katrina]

Usually doushing is NOT very IC friendly so when doing so I would at least try to use something that is....yougurt isn't usually. I have considered making something with garlic though...haven't done it yet because of not needing to. If probiotics is what you would like to use....you could try making a mixture with a bought probiotic that comes in a powder or liquid. Either way you may want to mention that to your doctor too.:grouphug: good luck with whatever you do!!::kiss:



WOOPS FOGOT THE WORD NOT

[melanie626]

Do probiotics get excreted throught the bladder or do they cause any flairing? I just got over a yeast infection and don't eat yogurt, so would be happy to add some happy bacteria to my world.

[Angeles]

I've been battling this yeat infection for a while now. I don't have as much discharge or vaginal pain today as 2 days ago but I started a bad IC flare, pelvic pain and back pain.
I called my gyno to ask to be cultured for bacterial Vaginosis. He saw me last week and looked the wet sample under the micro and at that time the PH was normal so he said there's no need for a culture now. He said with yeast you can have a normal PH but not w/ bacterial vaginosis.
So acc to him all I have is yeast which is more more resistant to diflucan (nothing new).
He also said that last week's blood and urine analysis- don't kwno which one he referred to- showed high white blood count and that could be allergic to something? He asked me to stop cystoprotek for a while :( (which I was taking it only for 10 days). While I think what I'm allergic to is the yeast.

I asked him to prescribe me some boric acid and I'll use that since this is the week of my period and the ph will go up making my yeast "happier".

I also went quickly to my GP's office which is a block away from were I live just to make sure I don't have a UTI and dip stick was negative. That's a relief.

Probiotic:To answer the question above about probitoc: they are prettry tolerable among ICers. Tehre are many brands and preferable to get one at the health food store to start with. Look careful at the ingredients to see if there's anything you may be allergic to already.

[Katrina]

yeast can cause a flare and yeast may be in your bladder so if you start a treatment like a probiotic you may feel worse for a day or two before you feel better (not common but has happened). Usually probiotics are very well tollerated and make things better if anything.

yeast meds :Nystatin sometimes treats yeast that Diflucan doesn't.

[melanie626]

Thanks-
I started them yesterday, can't hurt. Feel better as not as itchy, but I think this IC diet is making me have some low grade yeastiness (gross I know) Do others note that on this diet?

I see my Gyn in a few weeks, I will ask her to culture me as well for yeast...

[Angeles]

IC diet allows us to eat sugar, sweets, breads, pasta, rice, etc. These are supposed to feed yeast.
The anti yeast diet tells you to eliminate sugar and mosts breads, pasta , rice, potatoes etc.
So there's little left for us to eat. We can have lots of proteins from meat, eggs etc and some vegetables and we should take advantage of that even though is hard.
I just try to cut down on sugar, I still eat bread, rice and stuff but don't abuse either. I use a sugar substitute now called: xilitol, birch bark sugar that I get in the healthfood store. I love it. Before I was using pure sugar, no more.
I will also try splenda sweetened products, I used before IC but didn't after.

[grace 2]

Yeah, I agree the diet is not the best for yeast. I use stevia for a sweetener and don't eat any sugar. I've also cut out all refined flour. I still eat potatoes and rice, lots of meat , romaine lettuce and green beans. It's very hard to eat right with all the restrictions. Hope you feel better soon! I'm fighting yeast right now too. Grace

[Katrina]

Just wanted to add on the diet aspect that illiminating acid doesn't help a lot either since acid does help in killing off bugs....add that to the list of reasons why the IC diet makes us somewhat more vulnerable to yeast. Man, lots of reasons! :grouphug:

[redfaced]

IC diet allows us to eat sugar, sweets, breads, pasta, rice, etc. These are supposed to feed yeast.
The anti yeast diet tells you to eliminate sugar and mosts breads, pasta , rice, potatoes etc.
So there's little left for us to eat. We can have lots of proteins from meat, eggs etc and some vegetables and we should take advantage of that even though is hard.
I just try to cut down on sugar, I still eat bread, rice and stuff but don't abuse either. I use a sugar substitute now called: xilitol, birch bark sugar that I get in the healthfood store. I love it. Before I was using pure sugar, no more.
I will also try splenda sweetened products, I used before IC but didn't after.


I just bought some xylitol the other day but haven't used it yet. I got it from the health food store. It's supposed to help with osteoporosis and dental decay, too. In other words, a sugar that is good for you! I heard stevia is good, too, but there are some variences of it that are bitter.

[melanie626]

Good tips, I am probably eating to much sugar and carbs, cripes, this is a drag! Can I just be normal????

[melanie626]

Okay, MY MD did a swab and it was OK, gave me one day of a vag insert but man I have icky nasty white stuff in my labia and my clitoris (nasty, I know)- Help, anyone? I have been taking intermittend probiotics, using cotten undies, could it be due to my daily baths with my diet????

[Katrina]

did he do a cultre of the swab? I am just trying to clarify if you mean that the stuff is defiantly yeast. If so yes boths baths and diet could partain to it.
if you are already doing probiotics, try to make sure you dry well....garlic is an easy to get alternative that helps pretty much all "bugs" go away. Unfortunatly if you have bad IBS it isn't one that is easy to tollerate but it is IC friendly lol Hope that helps :grouphug:

[grace 2]

I can relate to what you are going through Melanie. I get itchy, sometimes have a discharge that looks like yeast, and when my dr. checks it whether with a culture or under a microscope it's negative for yeast. It comes and goes. Right now it's here:( Once in a while it does come back positive, so that keeps me guessing. I have been diagnosed with vuvlodynia and I just chalk it up to that. I know I've done treatments for yeast when it's not yeast and it doesn't help. I do get l dryness and that could be part of my problem although I don't do well on l estrogen.Sorry I'm not more help, but you do have company in this :)
Katrina, how much garlic do you need to take to get rid of a yeast infection?

[tamara marie]

Someone told me to use this recipe to treat my yeast inf.
1/2 olive oil
1/2 tee tree oil
little bit of vitamin e

had anyone tried this

Marie

[Katrina]

Olive oil is good for a lot of "bugs" and vitamin E is pretty soothing....but tee tree oil I don't know anything about...no I have not tried that but many IC patients prefer the oral route for vaginal yeast since it helps prevent that next attack soon after.

[leelee88]

katrina,
Where can I buy Probiotics? and which ones do u recommend..

[Tamasina]

I suffered with yeast problem many years (went to allergist and had shots, nystatin for a while). I went to gynecologist who gave me terazol (this helped more than overcounter creams). Allergist told me important to keep my carbohydrates at no more than 80 (since too many carbs feed yeast). I read various books on yeast like Dr. Crookes's "The Yeast Connection" (gives useful advice). Before my periods, I'd suffer very bad with yeast and it would aggravated IC very much. I read (some on the forum said they have special boric acid for those who have yeast). Boric acid helped me some (but taking regular boric acid, the correct quantity, in a capsule but be irritating to bladder). I've read eat no sugar and there are certain other food restrictions (you can find some of this info on the internet too). Yogurt, I read, can irritate interstitial cystitis so I've been taking probiotics (a good one that will not break down in the stomach). Also, I've heard you should take garlic, grapefruit extract, etc. etc. (supplements that will help kill off the yeast) and change these around (so you can keep killing off the yeast). Also drink lots of water. You must continue to eat right (take care of self) to prevent yeast from coming back. Yeast can aggravate bladder very much.
Good luck!:pray:

[lisabar36]

I used to get alot of yeast infections. A gyn I went to told me after showering, to use a hair dryer on low cool setting and dry down there really well, because moisture breeds the yeast. It has worked great for me. Where do you buy probiotics at? Thanks for all the info. :)

[Katrina]

Health food store should have multiple options with a probiotic and the best would be stored in a fridge.


My favorite is VSL #3 but others are good too as long as you get a bacteria of 7 billion or more your doing well as long as they are stored cold so that you don't end up with a lot of dead bacteria.

http://www.ic-network.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228720&postcount=12 I believe that link that post compares different probiotics and gives a few ideas on which ones are good.


Tamasina, what is terazol can you tell us more about it???

[jenjen05]

I know this thread is a wee bit old, but I was looking at it for probiotic help and just thought I'd add that my experience with Terazol was awful. It flared me the worst I had ever flared. It's a yeast infection treatment.

[turnaround]

This is just an awesome, informative post. Thank you so much for all the hard work, Katrina!

[LithEruiel]

Thank you Katrina! Glad to know I'm not the only one who goes through this. I didn't know yeast was actually a bladder irritant...I was told by someone or other at a doctor's office that the external irritation could be giving me bladder spasms, but this is before I was diagnosed with IC and I doubt that they even knew what IC was at that office because I kept telling them I felt like I had to go all the time and they pretty much just blew me off since I didn't have a UTI.


Also the post that mentioned taking several Diflucans is right on. A pox on the stupid docs that give you one 150 mg Diflucan and think that is enough for a bad yeast infection.

And I totally agree with this! I work in a pharmacy so I see that most of the time they do only give one. Rarely do I see two pills (I think my doctor and her partner are the only ones in the area that do the 2nd dose after 72 hours). I was having chronic yeast infections before I worked where I do now and ended up getting an RX for seven to take over a six week period and I had the hardest time dealing with the pharmacy about it. My insurance would only pay for 2 pills a month, so I got my two pills, then I requested three pills the next time which I was paying cash for - enough so that my insurance would pay for the remaining amount on the next refill...and of course I went to the pharmacy and only had one in my bag, so I said I wanted three and the pharmacist said they usually only give one at a time and I said yes, I know, but my prescription was for SEVEN. Then when I went to get my remaining two (as requested when I called) there was ONE in the bag AGAIN! Oh and they gave me one in the ER too (I was so frustrated having a yeast infection for five months I went to the ER) and I refused it at first because I had already taken it and gotten no help and the nurse said it was just a one pill deal. Then the doctor came in and explained I'd be taking more over the next six weeks...and it actually worked too!

[gabrielasil77]

http://www.ic-network.com/images/presidentsaward2006.jpg
(Presidents Note - This posting received received our presidents award for it's practical tips and suggestions it provides to patients struggling with yeast! Bravo Katrina!)

I got a huge amount of requests for this so here it is:

Yeast and Interstitial Cystitis Connection

There are a lot of thoughts concerning the connection between Interstitial Cystitis (IC) and Yeast. We are sure that many patients with IC complain of yeast infection symptoms and when a yeast infection is present it can often cause an IC flare. It is not known whether yeast is a possible cause of IC. Nonetheless, it is one aspect worth informing patients about
Yeast produces a toxin, which is a bladder irritant. It doesn’t matter much where the yeast is in a patient’s body for the toxin to bother their bladder. Thus yeast infections are an aspect of IC that bother many and can cause bad flare ups. Most IC patients have had numerous antibiotics so we know that a number have yeast.
I am not directing this only to women, although women are often more aware of their yeast infections. I do know some men diagnosed with IC that were helped by probiotics. Some points of avoiding yeast may pertain only to women. Everyone should look into the possibility of yeast within their body, affecting their symptoms.
One possible theory as the cause of IC is that after yeast infections (which we know women get many of) the yeast, or the toxins the yeast emits, imbed themselves deep into the bladder making them undetectable. This theory is not given much merit anymore as far as yeast alone being the cause. It does stand though that yeast may give an allergic reaction that causes inflammation in some individuals.
The toxins released by yeast can be a problem if there is too much yeast anywhere. It can bother some even if the amount is normal. For that reason, treating yeast can be an aspect of treatment for IC that any patient with IC may want to try at some point.
Even if it does not help a patient’s IC to treat yeast when they do not have a yeast infection (vaginal yeast), when a vaginal yeast infection is present it can cause a big flare up. For me, a yeast infection causes me to have burning during urination before I notice any other symptom. It also can cause the pelvic floor muscles to spasm. Together that can mean a lot of pain. Reports from other patients have called a vaginal yeast infection their worse flare. Read the poll on Yeast Infections in IC patients
A yeast infection can cause urgency, frequency and urethral burning. It may also cause fatigue, abdominal bloating and gas. With that list an IC patient has good reason to try to prevent a yeast infection!
So why do so many women with IC get yeast infections so frequently that they are on constant treatment for them? The frequent antibiotics may be one factor. The problems that each bacterial and yeast infection causes us, may make us seek more treatment than average. Many of us seem to have a weakened immune system. Also since hormonal imbalance seems to be another factor in IC, which makes women more vulnerable to yeast.
For that reason just being aware of the different options in treating yeast infections is important for many IC patients.
• Probiotics
• Nystatin
• Diflucan
• AZO Yeast
• Boric Acid and Aci-gel (These are only IC friendly inserted in the vagina when there is a yeast infection and can be a risk otherwise)
• Herbal anti yeast supplements such as Garlic or oregano oil.
Probiotics are friendly bacteria. Most people eat them in yogurt to help yeast infections. They are a great way to avoid getting a yeast infection and can be bought in supplement form. They come in many different strengths, and the refrigerated non-dairy kinds are considered best. It is important to mention them with IC patients since because antibiotics usually kill friendly bacteria probiotics are a necessary part of treatment. They can prevent you from exchanging a bacterial infection for a yeast infection. You may notice that I did not mention Monistat. Most non-prescription vaginal creams are not IC friendly and are irritants for IC patients.
Many patients with IC are vulnerable to other problems as well and for that reason I think it is important to mention that it may not be a yeast infection. Other things that mimic a yeast infection such as bacterial vaginosis, vulvodynia, and vulvar vestibulitis.
IF you are certain it is a vaginal yeast infection and you are still desperate for more help with symptoms there is some self-help that may work. Yeast likes warm, moist, places so keep dry and try ice.
• Try 100% cotton underwear
• Avoid hot baths
• Dry well after baths, showers, sex, and such.
• Wear skirts (with no underwear while at home).
• Change towels daily.
• Avoid tampons
• Cleanse the vaginal area morning and night.
• Always use unscented white soap to cleanse.
• Don’t wear tight clothing
• Avoid yeast, sugar, refined carbohydrates, and colorings in your diet.
• For the oral thrush change you tooth brush
There are many aspects as to how yeast affects an IC patient’s life, more so if you are a woman. Everyone should pay attention to yeast in their diet, and may want to try yeast treatments as part of their IC treatment. Yeast has been a big aspect of IC for both men and women. Since yeast can be anywhere in the body and still affect the bladder, if you have increased symptoms when you eat dairy, yeast, sugar, or refined carbohydrates, yeast may be increasing your symptoms. If you have a lot of gas, be a sign you have yeast in your body. Some of you may already know that yeast is a problem for you. Cleansing your body of yeast is hard but something you may want to think about.
Katrina thank you soooo much for this post!!!! OMG!!! if I just know this before..!!!!
MI dr Send me to the pharmacy to try monistat cream to treat my yeast infection, I have a yeast infection every 2 month more or less. I try Difulcan ( he give me 5 each time) but the yeast keep comming back. At my second night of aplication i end up in the ER, trigger my IC symtoms to the maximun!!!! I was in tears!!!!! then I call him, and he send me another prescription to the pharmacy and I say no more!!!! Im not a guinea pig!!!
of course Change Dr already, im going to visit my new one next month.
Thank you so much, I find so much info in this little post, then I havent find in month!!!!!
PS: Im taking probiotics 20 billions a day, plus garlic suplemments at night. drinking water, and following an antiyeast diet as close as I can...plus Elmiron 200 mg a day.
:))) and my symtoms have impruve so much since the probiotics and garlic!!!

[lauraads]

I just started taking this as well because I'm becoming immune to Nystatin and Diflucan. I am having some bladder irritation but just had a bright light that it is probably die off from taking something new. So, I popped a Molybdenum (Moly B) which is a trace element I bought at the health food store that realy helps with minimizing yeast die off symptoms. I used it when I started treating my intestinal yeast a few years ago. I am hoping that does the trick.

I'm also going to start taking Candex as well, as I've read good things. And, I plan to go get the probiotic Fem Dophilus as well. I'm covering my bases because I've got a severe yeast problem going on that is making my bladder scream.

FYI, I don't think it's enough to just take a probiotic. I've been on one for years but with no benefit. Ones like Fem Dophilus and Ultimate Flora have specific strains for uro/vaginal health. I'm HOPING to see a difference!

[emily710]

I've just been prescribed Nystatin... yeast is back with a vengeance. My gyn this morning mentioned that if my body didn't quit with this yeast, I'd have to go on hormones. Any idea what kind of hormones? I'd ask her of course but I don't speak the language here very well (German) and only really got half of what she said. :(

[Katrina]

I would guess her goal is to balance you and keep your hormones more stable. For that reason you could ask for progesterone only. Some people try vaginal boric acid or aci gel to maintain the ph of the vagina. Have you tried something like that yet? It may be safer than hormones and has a similar goal.
Anyway in the area of hormones it could be worth it to first test to see what hormones are high in you. Usually the problem is estrogen dominance but often that is assumed. Anyway you should get tested first to see what is low or too high. Either way can be the problem.

I hope that helps :grouphug:

[LithEruiel]

When I had out of control yeast infections (4 months nonstop) I had to use Premarin vaginal cream every day for two weeks, then as needed. It really helped!

[Angeles]

That's interesting how we can react so differently!
When i was put on Estrogen for VV it will give me a yeast infection! estrogen promores yeast growth...but only a few people react like me.
With itchiness and discgarge w only a pea size amount of estrogen cream!

What helped me recently is Gynatren, a boric acid & acidophilus suppository and Rephresh as ussual.

[LithEruiel]

hmm, interesting. I was using the Premarin when the infection was already gone, but I still felt like it was there since it did so much damage - the Premarin was to help me heal. I used/use RePHresh as well!

[emily710]

Yeah, strange to put me on hormones because it's possible I *got* my yeast problem from 5 years on BCPs. Of course it's also possible that those years of BCP helped my yeast because I had bad skin problems before that - and incidentally the bad skin is prob from yeast. In any case, the BCPs made me terribly sick so forget that!

I'll check out boric acid and other more natural options. For now my Nystatin is working :sigh of relief: but may not forever.

[Angeles]

I would leave hormones as a last resource. Not everyone reacts the same but I wouldn't mess with them. The hormones in BCPs are the cause for yeast, V V etc for many women.
Estrogen promotes yeast growth - that's why many get the itchiness and discharege right before period, ovluation and pregnant women also struggle with yeast.
Estrogen is very good on the other hand, for the vulvar skin BUT it can back fire with yeast!. I have given it a chance many times, tried estrace and premarin and used Femcom FE which is a BCP higher in estrogen...alll of that to try to heal my vulvar skin. I ended up worse.
Maybe you could try Boric acid, Gynatren suppositories (boric acid and acidophilus), Rephresh, Diet, even plain yogurt, but be careful with hormones and if you decide to go with a hormone treatment bc you feel is the best for you, please know exactly what hormones you'll be taking etc. Don't do anything blindly.
I know how bad yeast is....:grouphug:

[emily710]

Thanks Angeles, I will definitely keep hormones as a last resort then. I can't imagine it getting worse, but true it could flare up every week instead of every month. That'd be a nightmare.

[h808]

thanks katrina! i am one of those women who get a yeast infection about every month. my gyno (looking for a new one) insists it's just because of the climate. it's nice to see someone making the connection between yeast infections and ic. i will be sure to start changing my towels out every single day now, hadn't thought of that before.