"you probably have interstitial cystitis, and that's a real son of a _____".

[straightshooter65]

Greeting everyone, I hope this finds everyone well and enjoying father's day.

I have spent the past three plus months with this mystery ailment and was wondering if anyone had or heard of anything similar; at the latter part of February after a month of Dental work, anti-biotics and pain relievers I developed this sudden "sensation" to urinate that would not go away. I have never had this feeling before in my life. I went to my HMO who, after a negative urinalysis for bacteria, blood, ect. basically scratched their collective heads "could be this, that, or whatever". The Doctor wrote an Rx for Ditropan. I ended a trip with my wife early (after one day) because the symptoms were so irritating. I ended back at my HMO and had some old guy do a rather unpleasant DRE and say, "you probably have interstitial cystitis, and that's a real son of a _____". He then handed me a year’s supply of Pyridium and referred me to the HMO Urologist.

The HMO Urologist did another DRE (feeling kind of violated at this point) felt my abdomen had me urinate in a cup and did some kind of ultra sound (Cystometry) that checks to see if your completely emptying your bladder. The Urologist, I guess not impressed with my symptoms, prescribed me Levbid and said "sometimes, as we get older, we become more sensitive to certain foods, and that's what I think is going on here". I asked for a prescription of anti-biotics anyway. He gave me X 2 weeks of Cepro. I honestly believe I had a significant reduction on symptoms after the first week. About a week after the Cepro was through, my "issue" came back with a vengeance. I phoned my Urologist and he changed his diagnosis to "chronic prostatitis, and prescribed a one month of run Cepro. This time it did not have the same effect actually it had no effect. The he graduated me to Doxycycline for 30 days, to no avail. I did ask for an anti yeast medication, fearing after all those anti-biotics I no doubt had a Candida over growth issue as well. I cannot remember the name of the medication. No matter, as it did pretty much nothing. My Primary MD did order an MRI, which was "normal".

My wife switched jobs and as a result I got the opportunity to escape my HMO and see a "real" doctor. This Urologist did much the same, DRE, palpate abdomen, and collect history. He ordered a CT scan of the genitourinary system, which came back with "no abnormalities". He prescribed Keflex 500 mg. QID X 30 days. This was about 29 days ago and no difference in symptoms. I am due for a Cystoscopy exam next week.

The most prominent symptom is the "sensation" to urinate. It does not go away, occasionally lying down helps a bit, and of course once I am asleep. Also, if I am engaged in activity, like bike riding, I am 70%symptom free. Otherwise, I have basically had the feeling to pee for three months! They started feeding me Valium and Klonopin so I don't lose my mind and jump off a bridge. The Ditropan and Levbid, do absolutely nothing. I did accidentally stumble on what I thought was a miracle cure though. I take Ultram as needed for arthritis/old occupational battle injuries. Much to my surprise, it almost totally relieves my symptoms! A few of Ultram's side effect are urinary hesitation and retention, my best friends right now! My current Urologist said stop immediately because evidentially Ultram is addictive and retention/hesitation are not good symptoms in his opinion. I will admit, I still take them from time to time; one little pill equals a good half-day of "normal" activities. Back to symptoms, occasionally I will have "urgency" and produce very little urine. On rare occasion it felt like I might lose a little, but I would not identify "Urgency" as a major symptom.

I question Prostatitis because I am a little young for those symptoms (40) and I have no pain, discomfort or many of the other obvious symptoms. PSA was like .08 and multiple 'DRE's" revealed nothing abnormal. I also question interstitial cystitis because I have only a few of those symptoms. In addition to all the dental work done in February, I also started riding a bike semi-regularly and went to a few (literally) Yoga classes. I also quit smoking in January. I can't help but wonder if I somehow injured my back or a "nerve is pinched". I also take quite a bit of Motrin.

I cannot be the only one in this particular position?!?! Anyone ever experience anything similar? Know of anyone who has? This "mystery issue" is destroying my quality of life! I can feel myself slipping towards depression, and I am not prone to depression.

Anyone? Anything?

Peace,

JD :headbang:

[Dixiefireball]

:hi: JD and :welcome: to the ICN family i'm sorry you are going threw so much at this point i hear that those HMO doctor are heck to deal with. glad you where able to get a new one.
you can try the ic diet and look over some useful infomration at www.ic-network.com/handbook this may help lead you in the right direction. in either case we are here for you and we do understand
sending you hugs and prayers
Rhonda

[emilyrose197377]

Jd welcome to the Ic board you will find a lot of info about Ic and support from other member as well.

Take care
Kim

[VickiB]

Every time I read an account like yours brings back those awful pre-diagnosis memories! Getting poked, prodded, tested and interrogated, appointment after appointment. Only to see the doctor scratch his head and hand you a prescription that may or may not do a thing because they really have no idea what the problem is! -Or they look at you like you have three heads and suggest you see a psychiatrist. I thought I was going to go nuts after a while of this and don't envy your being in this situation now!

The link Rhonda gave you is a good one,..kind of everything IC. One thing you'll find is that we all don't experience the same symptoms. Some do only suffer with that feeling that they always have to go. That doesn't sound like all that terrible of a thing, until you live with it day in and day out and find it can be quite maddening!

Hang in there and keep pressing on to find the cause. I wish you luck in your search!

Vicki

[IWin]

Has anyone considered pelvic floor dysfunction?

My urologist was telling me about a male patient of his who cycles and has pelvic floor dysfunction.

[ICNDonna]

It does sound like you may have IC. And it's not unusual for doctors to consider and rule out all other options before even considering it. The cystoscopy in the doctor's office is one of the steps sometimes taken during the "rule out" testing. You might ask about having a potassium sensitivity test at the same time.

I also suggest you put yourself on an IC diet to see if that helps. You'll find the diet in the Patient Handbook.

I've had diagnosed IC for thirty years now and the worst possible part of it was the time before diagnosis. Once I knew what I have, it made it easier to deal with.

Sending warm healing thoughts,
Donna

[classics]

JD

I'm glad you found the IC Network. Just reading your post reminded me of when I had an HMO and was trying to find out what the pain in my shoulder was all about. I HATE HMO'S! It was several months before they finally let me have an MRI and discover I had a very badly herniated disc in my neck. I had to go through a lot to get that MRI. That was over 8 years ago, and I still have to go back to physical therapy every now and then.

I'm only glad that my IC was discovered in a relatively short time compared to others, but that's only because I found this website FIRST, after searching for "bladder infections without bacteria" or something along those lines. Then I was able to suggest to the urologist(s) that I might have it. After all the usual tests to rule anything else out, the conclusion was that I did have it.

Follow the reading suggestions above about the diet, etc. That seems to be helpful to many here.

[traceann]

Hi and Welcome! I too remember antibiotic after antibiotic, ugh -- to no avail. Still felt like I had to pee constantly, even though I knew I was just in there! It was awful. Myself, like Classics, helped my doc diagnose me, by having myself armed with info when I went in to see him. I was diagnosed at first, soley on symptoms alone and my past history of symptoms, in Nov of '04. I was given Ditropan back in Sept of '04 for what felt like urethral spasms when I urinated, they were horrible, it eventually felt like I was peeing broken glass. The ditro helped for awhile, but that respite didn't last too long. Now I felt like I had to go constantly, the ditro helped with the spasms, but not the frequency. My doc was surprised to hear that. Again, I threw out the IC idea, but he wasnt' sure yet, yeesh, and wanted me to take another round of antibiotics, because they found some minute evidence of possible uti. Ok, fine. Took them, felt good one day, and right back to how I was before. Now he entertained the idea of IC. We decided to try me on Elmiron for 3 months along with the ditro, and at that time if there wasn't a small bit of improvement, I was heading off to a urologist. I added in Vistaril (the antihistamine hydroxyzine) in Dec, and it's been up up up ever since. I have steadily improved. I have gone from urinating 20-30+ a day (and feeling like I have to constantly go) and at least 4-5 at night to now I average 11. With no trips at night, at all. The feeling like I had to go made bedtime unbearable back then!

The diet has also greatly improved my life, it was/is something I could control and didn't need a doc for. It has really made a huge difference, I never realized how things like food could effect my bladder! It's now one of my main tools for helping myself, and I discovered I could eat a lot more things than I intially thought I would be able to :) And with the help of Prelief tabs, I can cheat occasionally too, without it causing any problems. Always a good thing, lol.

So, between this site and these wonderful people, my meds and the diet, I am generally feeling pretty good all the time now, close to my old self -- obviously with a few "modifications", hee hee!

Hope you feel better soon, get to the bottom of your troubles so you can start discovering what will work for you!!

Take care,
Tracey :)

[straightshooter65]

“Yeah...I know it is so much harder on you guys to get cathed and to have someone grab your "business" like a garden hose by a stranger must be a drag.” Tracey, it’s absolute insanity, this whole I.C. non-sense has so far consisted of some pretty “radical” testing treatments. That amount to basically nothing, expect put you in some very precarious situations that humiliate you. Thus far, I allowed them to go all the way to being “put under” by a general anesthetic, have had my bladder hyper-extended and photo’s taken. Total, was about 17K, and all he could tell my wife was “he’s not faking”! Holly crap, glad we got that out of the way!.

Here’s some potential good news, and my reason for posting tonight; I see Dr. Christopher Payne on October 5th!!! Sources tell me he is the “Jesus Christ” of I.C. patients. My other Urologist was certainly no fool, but he’s not Dr. Payne either. I don’t know what I desire form the visit? I guess the cure!?!? Or “this isn’t I.C., this can be healed in a jiffy”.” I doubt either, but positive thinking, even on a crappy day, makes a difference. I really don’t want to be “cathed”, or any other humiliating situations. I have had some serious childhood crap happen that makes these kinds of visits very daunting and haunting. I start to hear the helicopters coming over the rice patties, that kind of thing. We shall see? I have heard nothing but praise about this man.

I have to cut the typing, am actually “pecking” this out. I was the unwitting victim to some piss poor ergonomics and tendonitis or whatever they are calling it, caught up to me fast (about 2/ ½ years) and has me on “modified duty” for a few weeks, with an insurance company notorious for “we are denying your claim, but you are welcome to obtain counsel” kind of out comes. So needless to say, stress is high, and with increased stress comes increased I.C. horse-crap.

It’s going to be awhile before I can really start “writing”, please bare with if I don’t respond quickly to questions or whatever.

Peace all …

Dave

*** How to I correct my username? Anyone know? Obviously, it's not quite the way i wanted it. : )

AND ...

Dave - Free and Healing for Eight Months, Twenty Two Days, 20 Hours and 6 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 23 Days and 3 Hours, by avoiding the use of 6671 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $1,433.23.

I am pretty damn proud of this one!!! If I ever needed an excuse to light up, it would be now! But, my freinds, I remain free!!!

[ICNDonna]

Dave, if you wish to change your user name, send me an email and I'll take care of it for you. Be sure to include your email address and current user name in the email.

Donna
donna@ic-network.com

[kadi]

Hi Dave,
Just wishing you good things for your visit with Dr. Payne. He's not JC (sorry). He is, however, by far the best doctor I've seen for the IC and he's helped me a lot more than anyone else. Everyone at Stanford, from the doctor, to nurses, to billing office, and parking lot attendants, has been helpful and kind. And, I think, one of the most healing things about being treated there, is that they know the impact IC has on your life and are not patronizing, dismissive or even indifferent about it.

Just wanted to send you a word of encouragement, and wishing you better days soon!

[traceann]

Hey Dave, glad to hear of your getting to see a good doc! That alone is reason to celebrate, lol. How's the Elmiron working for you, you are on that right? LOL, I'm only 36, but one other "side-effect" of IC is bad memory...lol, at least it's a great excuse for being a bit scatterbrained at times!! LOL

Good luck this Wedesday, and keep us posted as best you can (in the typing dept, lol)!!

I am so envious of your success at quitting! I am going to be quitting pretty soon here again (using my Rx'd Wellbutrin -same med as Zyban which helped me before). I was quit for a whole year thanks to that stuff helping me kick the habit, but then divorcing a real Jacka** caused me to start up again...that was 3 years ago...I did it once, I can do it again. I hear ya on the "excuse to light up", it's bad when my husband answering a questionnaire for my scrapbooking hobby answered the question "Who/what do I turn to for strength?" And he teasingly answered "Marlboro"...ah he knows me so well.....ugh. I have faith I'll kick it again, did it before like I said earlier....can do it again! Congrats again on that, that's a HUGE accomplishment! :)

[straightshooter65]

Kadi you were right about the Stanford staff, they were all very cool. It was almost spooky!? I am a 20-year Kaiser just moved over to wife’s Cigna kind of guy, not use to nurses (used loosely, Medical Assistants) being friendly and accommodating. They also take care of business waiting was minimal.

I did not meet Dr. Payne immediately; two residents first interviewed me, then Dr. Payne entered the room and began questioning them on their findings. I think I may have set a record for the number of DRE’s performed in one day. Felt like a contraband search at San Quentin, or the airport! I was disappointed that my primary urologist did not send my CAT Scan and bladder distension pictures. So, as a result, lots questions, I was having difficulty exactly describing symptoms, and I was decidedly nervous about the DRE nonsense, even though I know it has to be done. In a previous post I mentioned being the victim of some hardcore physical/sexual abuse, which just multiplies the whole issue by 10!!! This information did not slow down anyone! Before I knew it, three different doctors had a finger in my butt (at separate times, of course)!!! The female, her name escapes me, was very cool. Good bedside manner got me to laugh and speak freely.

Unfortunately, there was no magic bullet my friends. He concurred with my Urologist and recommended I continue the meds as Rx’d. I told him about Ultram having a better then average effect and he did not have an issue with it. Dr. Payne was very friendly, knowledgeable and thorough. In three months, if no change, we get into more tests. Not allot was gained from the visit at first blush. Having the films, I think would have given him a few more pieces to the puzzle. I am a little ticked about that. Also, don’t want to point fingers.

I think I wanted him to tell me I was mis-diagnosed, and “take these pills and you’ll be 100% in no time”. Not today. This is going to be a long battle. I’ve already learned that stress is not my friend, so I’ll first work on that, then off comes about 40 lbs! See if “over-all” health improves.

Traceann … whyquit.com is the place when you are ready. I’ll post my stats at the end of this novel. The Elmiron? It’s hard to say because the Ultram kicks some serious butt! Dr. Payne said if no significant improvement in three months, then it’s not going to work. Positive thinking!!! Is memory loss really a side effect of Elmiron? I have been “spacey” and a little “goofy” for months now. Go figure????

[straightshooter65]

ADDENDUM: Dave - Free and Healing for Eight Months, Twenty Eight Days, 1 Hour and 56 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 23 Days and 14 Hours, by avoiding the use of 6802 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $1,461.71.

[kadi]

Hi Dave,
I'm so glad your visit went well. I know what you mean about hoping against hope not to have IC.

Yes, stress makes it all worse. I've found yoga & thoughtfully pacing my schedule very helpful for reducing stress. Also, keeping a list of tasks for each of my goals, divided into things I can do on good-IC days & bad-IC days so that I can keep progressing forward in spite of the IC. That also helped with the despair. (I don't call it depression, that seems to make doctors want to throw SSRI's at me--and I react very badly to them-then we have a fight.) For the first 2 years I had IC, I kept postponing things I wanted to do, waiting to "get well". Now I'm trying to move forward on several goals, but much more gently than I'd have done it before IC.

I did not get instant "magic" results from going to Stanford either, but over the past year & a half we've been trying things & I've gotten better & better. One thing about Dr. Payne's office is that they will try to analyze & problem solve with you, the difficulties with a particular treatment, instead of just calling it a failure & sending you away. Example: home instillations - for me, we substituted Marcaine for Lidocaine, & non-latex caths for the rubber ones. And now they're working great (the more traditional formula & regular caths burned like heck!).

One of the things that has been most healing about working with Dr.Payne & his staff is that I've been very honest about the impact of IC on my life, have told them the losses, they've seen me cry--and no one has made rude remarks about not being psychologists, no one has thrown meds at me, called me depressed, or otherwise written off the very real suffering this illness causes.

I was a pretty severe case, went through 17 meds before I got to Stanford, thought I was going to lose everything, 2 solid years without even a single pain free day--and now, (except for the d--- UTI I've had this week), I feel NORMAL and even good 95% of the time! So, what I want you & everyone else reading this post to know is, that even if you've been sick awhile, you can still get better.

Wishing you better days soon!

[traceann]

Very cool site, thank you! I have it in my favorites already...Now gotta put it in my faves at home! When I quit the first time, the Zyban would make me "forget" about cigarettes...I would go for a few hours, and then realize..."holy sh** I haven't even thought about a cigarette!" And it was funny too, when I started, I never forgot to take my Zyban, never. As I quit for longer and longer, I started to forget to take them, very strange! You're supposed to be on the stuff for a total of 3 months, I only used 2. I am on 1/2 the dose I was then, due to being on Paxil also, so the "forgetting" effects aren't quite as "marked". I guess psyching myself up is the first step, like I did the last time....It's funny too, there's that crazy "fear" back again, I know I am fine as a non-smoker, I proved it to myself, but the "panic" of "what-do-I-do-without-them!!" has set in again....argh.

LOL, hmmm, I think, that yes, I would like to say it's all the Elmiron's fault! :biglaugh: As it does seem like that's when my "normal" scatterbrainedness, became of epic proportions, lol. Then we threw some Prednisone on that, then some Paxil...and now lastly Wellbutrin... I tend to um, start on one project then midway through decide that something else needs to be done...thereby leaving the first unfinished! :loco: Rather comical the night my husband was making burritos for himself and my mom for dinner and asked me to get the shredded cheese out of the fridge, "no problem!" Well, I get into the fridge and for some crazy reason decided it was a good time to clean it out...while he's standing there waiting for the cheese...completely forgetting about his cheese...It was a few minutes later that I realized this when he said to me "um hon, think I could get dinner finished first before you clean out the fridge??" ooopppppsssss! :bonk: Did that to him with dishwater too. I didn't realize he'd put his soap in and all and was just waiting for me to vacate the sink area, and so I thinking I was being helpful, dumped it all out and started fresh for him. He says that now that we have everything else medicated, we need to do something about my A.D.D.!! LOL

So, after all of that, yes, I'd like to blame it on Elmiron, sound good?? :biglaugh:

Take Care!!!

[straightshooter65]

I received the dictated letter of Dr. Payne’s examination. First off, my Urologist allegedly did not send the appropriate records or any at all, and forgot to advise me to pick up my own films from the radiology company. I thought I was going in with excellent history, and really came in "cold". Aside from the most detailed description of my butt I have ever seen, he also commented that when he pushed on the right side of the prostate, it recreated the symptoms I described!? Just food for thought, but even after all this testing and seeing "the master", I get the strangest feeling their missing something. Someone from another board recommended I ask about "Waterfall D-Mannose"? Thinking it might be a stubborn prostate infection?

Just food for thought. Any feedback?

Dave



Have a great weekend,

JD

[traceann]

Huh, you got me stumped! Hopefully someone will chime in with some thoughts to ponder!!!

:)

[straightshooter65]

Good Morning All …

I wanted to post this because it may be of interest; does anyone know the “dissolving temperature” of electric dishwasher detergent?

The answer is; 125*F - 130*F >MINIMUM<.

We recently discovered this after I noticed the pronounced perfume smell (I also quit smoking, so senses were/are acute) of what ever product we were using at the time. The appliance repair-person, simply shot an “IR Thermometer” into our dishwasher and it registered a whopping 90*F!!! I have a fairly inexpensive “Extech – Mini IR Thermometer, so I kept vigil on that water temp, the highest it ever went was 113*F. Just FYI … an “Infrared Thermometer” is an H-Vac type tool or Air Conditioning and Refrigeration. You just point at some thing (within a reasonable distance) and it gives you the temperature. I saw one of these being used a few years back, and thought “imagine the possibilities?”, then located one that I could afford and have never been more pleased! extech.

I personally believe that “I.C.” is caused by environmental exposures, they say “Auto-immune” and a few other possibilities, but I think it all falls back on some kind of toxin, allergy, something in you’re physical environment. I’ve had my eye on that dishwasher for many months as a possible culprit, but never knew about “minimum dissolving temperatures”! cleaning101.com/dishwash

What if I have been ingesting “detergent” for about a year, and it finally burned the heck out of my bladder? Or what kind of bacteria is present on those dishes now? Many questions!!! Hopefully, a new water heater brings some answers, as that would be a true blessing. It is only four years old, so I never suspected anything, that is, of course, until my garage achieved 90% humidity in 30 seconds!

I just wanted to post an FYI, just in case know one had thought of this?

I also wanted to brag … (below) …

User - Free and Healing for Five Days, 13 Hours and 57 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 11 Hours, by avoiding the use of 140 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $27.91.

Peace all …

Dave

[straightshooter65]

ADDENDUM....
Dave - Free and Healing for One Year, Five Days, 14 Hours and 10 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 32 Days and 4 Hours, by avoiding the use of 9265 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $1,881.46.

[massagedoula]

Dave,
As a math-phobe, I am stunned at your post.

Also, I would like to say that I have only ever used Ecover 100% natural dishwashing powder from the health food store, and I doubt that gave me IC. But different things can certainly cause people to develop the same condition. Because I am so chemical sensitive, no chemicals are ever allowed in our house. Am I chemical sensitive because of IC or vice versa? Who knows.

[straightshooter65]

We started using "Seventh Generation" about a month ago, a recommendation from a friend. Since it came in powder form, it actually became the dishwasher "tate-tale", and put me hot on it's case (powder on the door of the dishwasher). It's cool that more and more folks are using the"earth friendly" prodjucts, even more cool that they exist, may just be people friendly also!

I hope the information was useful to someone, hopefully I am included! :bow:

Good night folks ...

Dave

[straightshooter65]

Greeting all … I had really hoped, nothing personal, that my postings here would be brief, alas here I am.

I think I am the most frustrated because there does not seem to be a real interest in causative factors, such as allergies or prostate or a number of other things. I was seen by a new Urologist at a local Urology clinic here in the Bay Area. He basically concurred with Dr. Payne, although keep in mind, Dr. Payne had no records or pictures. He did a thorough exam, believe me, but was missing large pieces of the puzzle. Dr. Payne’s name carries so much weight, the new Doc basically saw his name, refilled the Elimron, but reduced the dose from three twice a day to two twice a day and increased my Flomax. I even brought the pictures and missing notes! He would not touch the Ultram (which I do not take for pain relief, I understand it’s just a powerful anti-inflammatory), which is one of the few medicines that actually reduce symptoms or the Benzos, stating “maybe when I know you better”. That was absolute B.S., but argue and you’re –drug seeking-!!!

In the very beginning it just felt like I had to pee 24.7.365, which as you all know is quite maddening. I now understand what pain is. This Workers Compensation non-sense remains as stressful as the day is long, my career hanging in the balance. My primary referred me to a Urologist she knows near O’Conner Hospital in San Jose. This time I also brought everything with me. He looked at the pictures and said “this isn’t even I.C., then proceeded to do the customary exam and referred me back to Dr. Payne. I will see Dr. Payne in January, this time Dr. Payne’s folks will have that medical record ASAP, so he has something palpable to work with. Anyway, my bladder (or ???) has periodically been –on fire- and not much seems to help. I know it’s fired off by stress; there is a definite cause and effect relationship. After some wrangling he finally agreed to Rx’d me something for moderate pain.

These Urologist’s are an interesting bunch. No problem prescribing Alpha Blockers, experimental treatments and experimental drugs. However, ask for pain relief and their butt cheeks clench together. I have zero, repeat zero, history of substance abuse. There is no logical reason to leave a patient suffering, simply because you’re afraid of the DEA!?!? It would stand to reason that if medications are prescribed for pain, the doctor has a compelling reason, upheld by patient request, patient history, ect. This is the first time I have asked for pain meds to address I.C. symptoms, it just hit a fever pitch. I am on this rant because the pain meds are now gone, but not the pain and I know it’s going to be an uphill battle. These types of flares last for awhile.

Can anyone/someone recommend an I.C. friendly or at least an I.C. knowledgeable and compassionate doctor in the greater Silicon Valley, who helps us with these bad spells???

And last … I really, really, really, still contend that someone has missed the boat. My symptoms are equally prostate and I.C., it would be refreshing to meet the Doc who could actually name that tune!!! I have a feeling that Dr. Payne may fish around a bit more once he has the long lost paperwork. Hope is cool and all, but hope does not settle down the discomfort.

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas …

Peace all,

JD:cussing:

[Katrina]

:grouphug: Sorry I can't help with the doctor issue...other than offer a link. So your back close to the hollidays...hmm could stress have something to do with flare? Pelvic floor dysfunction http://icandme.9.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=6 pelvic floor dysfunction (PFD) learning to relax the muscles treatment options symtpoms of pfd and more Stress also increases aciditity and weakens the immune system...so there are other aspects too. Good luck in your doctor search and sorry your not doing well atm. :grouphug:

https://www.ichelp.com/AskTheDoctor/physicianregistry.html ICA ask sign up for their physician list
http://www.ic-network.com/md/doctorlistings.html ICN's physican listing
http://www.orthoelmiron.com/html/elm/pd_consumer.xml?article=finddoctor.jspf find a doctor

[charmedx3]

good luck with payne in jan. have you sen anyone at ucsf?