Qestion????

[Teri]

I am sooooooooooo confused. I've been sober for 14 years one month now. I managed to stay drug free until about 4 years ago when the pain got to be too much. My first step was to quit going to meetings because the physical pain was so bad that I actually had a very hard time getting there and once I was there I was so miserable that I couldn't sit thru a meeting that was 1-2 hours long.
Once I started taking pain medication I stopped going to the meeting altogether because I no longer felt like I was 'clean' so I didn't feel that I belonged there. I would sit at tables with people who were suffering absoluately undescribable pain who refused to take any type of pain medication at all as to not mess with their sobriety.
So, once I started needing my meds on a daily basis, I quit the meetings.
When do you know that you've crossed the line with your meds? I never 'run out' but there are times that the pain is so bad that I will take that one extra pain pill cuz I didn't need it yesterday. So, I do 'cheat' I guess you would call it. If the bottle says take 1-2 every 4-6 hours with a max of 6 a day, I don't pay any attention to the hour part but I do make sure that I don't exceed the 6 a day (my mother died from liver failure due to overuse of tylenol).
But, my pain meds alone are not enough. To 'boost' their strength I will take an ativan....and, at night when I can't sleep because of pain (which is basically every night) I 'boost' the pain meds with xanax and benedryl.
My only thought is making it thru the day and doing my best to get some kind of sleep at night. I don't take the meds to make me 'high'....they definately don't make me high, infact they basically make me feel like ****.
I've started to wonder if sometimes I'm not trying to kill emotional pain instead of physical pain and that's gotten me very confused the past few days.....I know that I've gone thru 2 major surgeries in the last 3 weeks and I'm expecting way too much of myself because I've always popped right back from surgery and this time I'm not. The more I physically try to do, the worse off I am.....for some reason I just can't park my *** on the couch and let my body have a chance to heal itself like I used to beable to.
Had a family function today and everyone was telling me how much weight I've lost and that my husband should start feeding me more but with the new pain meds and the new pamelor that my shrink has me on, I have absoluately no appetite at all.
I can go thru days where I don't need to add the ativan as a booster for the pain pills cuz the pills will work. There is not a night that I can go without taking the xanax with the pain meds in order to get sleep.
My dr has tried me on oxycontin and the pain patch....and it broke my heart because they both made me pain free. I became violently ill and couldn't take them so I am stuggling with percoset (which does help) but adding that 'boost'.
All's I want is to have one, just one good night's sleep. And, to beable to make it thru a day without any pain meds. Over the summer I did have a few days where I didn't need the pain pill OR the 'boost' but those days were few and far between.
Does anyone else struggle with this???? Does anyone else wonder if they have crossed that line and become addicted? I know that when I am sick and don't take my meds I get all shakey, cranky and irritable but I think that it's more because I'm refusing to treat my symptoms than anything else. IF I have no pain I CAN make it thru the day without my meds but those days sure don't happen very often.
I'm just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO confused and need to know if anyone else struggles with these things http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/cwm/cwm/uhoh3.gif
I've even been thinking about checking into rehab but what would be the sense of that if I would just have to come home and start using the meds in order to make it thru the day again http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/cwm/3dlil/ugh.gif
It's been such a struggle in my head....has anyone found a site where a recovering person who is going thru a chronic pain conditons and requires meds can go for support http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/sarge/Disappointed_anim.gif
thankx~

[ICNDonna]

If you are taking pain meds only when you are in pain --- if you are staying within the recommended dosage --- you should not be concerned about addiction. Yes, you may be depending on pain medications to make your life livable --- and yes, you may at some time need to slowly wean away from the meds when the pain has gone --- but without them right now, life would be intolerable for you.

Sending warm hugs,
Donna

[Teri]

still need your help~

[sue c]

YES, Yes, YEs,YES!!!! I hear what your saying Teri. I'm going through it my self... been on ACETAMINOPHEN W/CODEINE #3 TABLETS..
TYLENOL W/CODEINE #3 ...
for about 2 years NOW its HARD! i'm SCARED to DEATH i'm going to get hooked and i do not want that at all! But on the other hand the Pain has to STOP too.

I'm taking it for a car accident from 1999.
I am seeing my second PT right now too!
I understand and care......
sclaus1@pacbell.net

;)

[ldwall]

You know when I was taking all those pain meds last year, and even recently when I have been trying to deal with a huge fibro flare, or my 10th night with no sleep, I wonder. I wonder if I wan't the drugs for the relief (pain relief) the give me, or do I want them for the relief (you know what I mean). I wonder if wanting something to put me to sleep means I will go back to what I did, over 12 years ago now. I drank, that is all I did, but when you begin to take soo much stuff....you wonder.

But don't worry, the fact that you wonder means you are one, in control of your use of pain meds, two, that you are aware of how and when you take them, third, how and when you should take them, and finally, you know that when you don't need the meds if you are not in pain...........and that is the key.

So if I were you, I would be guilt free, stay aware, but don't feel like you have blown your recovery.

And when you wonder, we will be here. Lisa

[Breck]

Add me in!!! I have been taking klonopin for nerve pain, spasms in bladder/urethra for 3 years now! I've always asked the same questions your asking!!! I got so worried about it, I created a spreadsheet and kept my doseage daily, monthly averages, etc... I would challenge myself to try and beat one week over the next. CRAZY!!!
Now I had surgery for kidney stones and 2 lipos and have been taking lortab off and on for the pain in the bladder and urethra!!! Sometimes I feel like I'm just trying to take enough by adding several things together just to feel normal, not high, but just normal so I can do things like I once did. But yes, I to worry about addiction.
But this much I know.

Christ's strength is sufficient for me! If not for my faith, I'd take anything and everything just to escape this chronic pain!

Breck

[vm]

Teri,

I have been sober for 11 and a half years now. My first sponsor told me that no one should have to be in pain - this was pre-IC time for me. I don't have answers to your drug questions. I have been fortunate in that I have only had to take pain meds. after my c-sections and after my cysto w/ hydro. I was always cautious regarding dosages and always let someone know (besides my doctor) that I was taking them.

Do you still have a sponsor? Or could you get in touch with the one you had before? I know some people in the program are funny about pain meds. There is a pamphlet on it. I'll see if there is a link on the AA website to it. But, my point is, there are people in the program who will understand your situation and be supportive of you. I know it is something to watch, though. Some recovering people do relapse on pain meds.

I hope you can get back to meetings. I know you know this, but not going to meetings is usually the first thing to go when people head towards relapse. You don't have to share in meetings about taking pain meds. That is something you could just share with your sponsor and people you feel safe with and people who won't judge you. You could also maybe find a counselor who is familiar with 12 step programs and bounce some of this off of him or her...

My number 1 advice (er, suggestion) - go back to meetings!!!

[kels34]

Teri ~ I understand your struggle so much, as I am sure we all do. Anyone who is on pain meds as much as we are has a responsibility to be knowledgeable and aware of these issues, but it can be so hard to keep it all straight in our minds. Allow God to grant you peace and a quiet spirit as you work this through. The fact that you are thinking about it is a good sign! :D

I went web searching, and found this site for you...
http://www.rainbowconnextion.com/help.htm

It has a ton of links, dealing w/addiction, depression and chronic pain care, as well as other things. I don't know how useful it will be, but I am praying that it will help you {and maybe others** find answers. There may be more sites - I'll keep my cyber eyes and ears open!

The Bible says that God gives wisdom generously to those who ask Him for it...that's in James 1:5. I know that this is a constant prayer for me, that I might be filled daily with the wisdom of God. I have been praying this for years. I care about what you are going through, and am praying for you.
Love and gentle hugs {{{Teri********
Kelly

[redstonebef]

There is no way I am giving up my pain meds. I finally have my pain under control and I do not even question that I don't need them. But I only take MS Contin every 12 hrs. peroid. I am working a tiny bit now and have a happiness that I have not had in years. I will not go through the pain I have had for so many years again. It also was setting off my seizures. Now they are under control. Maybe you are being too hard on yourself. This IC is a B-----. to live with I know I have had it over 30 years. May God Bless each of you in pain and worry. Hugs

redstonebef

[Peggy]

Teri,
Here it is 4:33am and i've been up and down all nitght struggling with the very issues you pose from your post. I took 2 more pills than the max on sat. nite. when i noticed my pain wasn't as bad on sunday i came down off the pain meds some and feel the difference in my body. on mon., when i told the dr. i kept a diary of my meds for the weekend, she said she can't help me, i just want more and more, when she was the one who told me to get my pain under control. well, i see her partner this morn. and now she is going to deal with me. we have such a difficult road, because we have pain, but we also have drug issues. i don't care what they say, your body feels the difference when you drastically go from one dosage to another.
if you want to talk , cal me....
my email is mrmrsflweb@aol.com
God Bless,
Peggy

[JDLB]

So glad to find this place, I was clean and sober for 16 years, however stopped going to meetings 6 years ago. IC symptons started in 1995. Was misdiagnoised for years. All the doctots would say is you have an overactive bladder and prescribe ditropan etc. Then July 2001 after several years of 3-4 hours sleep and working exhausted I couldn't take it anymore. My mother suggested I try her uro, he diagnoised me right away. I was so glad to fonally get a dx. I asked him for something to sleep and her gave me Lorcet, this is where my hell began. I was taking less than prescribed for awhile. To be honest I liked the way it made me feel. It gave me the everything is ok feeling like I had prior to 1985 when went to rehab. The tolerance came after a few months, then my uro cut me down to darvocette he said we dont want you drug dependant as well as IC. The darvocette did its job for awhile. It helped with all the pain emotionally as well as physical pain. Then my uro didnt want to prescribe anything except elavil. By this time I was already dependent in everyway. I could sleep and go to work with the use of pain meds. I have been with my company for 26 years so I need to make it to retirement... becase frustrated with uro, found pain clinic.....wow did they load me up, so happens the pain doc wife has IC so he understands! He asked me what I wanted, stated with huge bottle of hydrocodone, ended up with huge bottle of dilaudid. Then I was in so much emotional pain I went to talk with my companys EAP and was assured was ok as long as not abusing the drugs. So I had to take a hard look at why am I still taking pain meds even though my pain has decreased...I stopped pain meds cold turkey with the help with small dose if atavin. Went to shrink because depressed he said I was foing thru withdrawal. He sent me to detox, they had me higher in detox than I was at home. They sent me home on huge doses of elavil and klonopin. I could not stand the way it made me feel. I am back at meetings and glad to see my old friends. Everyone has a different opinion about pain meds and sobriety and its driving me nuts. So far my symptons are tolerable. Watching my diet which I wasnt willing to do before. I decided to get very serious because this is my life to save. Sorry if this isnt prefect I feel new in sobriety and is hard to learn to do things the sober way. Another thing I am confused about is when I was in treatment in 1985 they taught total abstinance, now it seems the modern way is sent everyone home on antidepressants and ativan or some other mood or mild altering chemicals.


Thanks for listening.....


Donna P.

[vm]

I agree. Lots of people in the 12 step programs have very different opinions about taking medications. When I went on an antidepressant back in 92 I caught a little flack about that from a couple of people. But I think there is a good AA pamphlet that talks about some people's need to take medicine. My first sponsor used to say that we do not have to live in pain. I hope you are able to find some people in the program who understand that and will be supportive and realistic. The phrase "take what you need and leave the rest" is really good in these situations.

If I was on pain meds. long term I probably wouldn't even discuss it in meetings. Maybe that's wrong, but I am so sensitive - I know I would be upset if someone made a snippy comment. I'd probably discuss my issues with pain meds. just with my sponsor or other people I trust in the program.

Glad you're back in meetings. smile.gif My AA program helped me deal with my IC sooooo much.

[JDLB]

Thanks for your reply. I already told the biggest gossip in AA. NOW OW

[vm]

Oh well. I guess it really doesn't matter what others think or say anyway, right? wink.gif

[JDLB]

Thanks for your reply. I went to a meeting yesterday morning and saw an old member who states his DOS is 1986. I was so emotionally hurting I confided in him. He stated to me wouldnt
change my DOS which is Aug 25,1985. I advised him for me cant live with that. I need be 9-06-02. Because I know in my heart I was in the end taking drugs for allm the wrong reasons.

After the meeting I came home and told my husband who also is in recovery who has been sober since 1984 who I saw and sort of unloaded on... He said you told one of the biggest gossips in AA...my husband said this guy was still smoking pot and claiming to be sober etc...Oh well, now it doesnt have so much power over me on who knows...This same guy said he pops codeine for pain and sometimes more than prescribed and he would get drunk if he had to change his DOS. Now I know to be careful who I talk to, I need to find a sponser ASAP. I'm still in outpatient therapy and starting on my 4th step. Trying to get my sleep pattern back without drugs.


God bless all members who struggle with pain and sobriety.Thanks,

Donna P.

[Teri]

My DOS is 3/27/87. I stopped going to meetings because the pain got so bad that I had the choice of pain medication or not being able to leave the house.

My choice of drug was booze. Pain meds were only appealing to me with a beer chaser, other than that, they never did anything for me.

It was very very hard for me learning how to take pain medication for pain. I had a great sponsor and she lived long enough to help me thru this. Today I take drugs to live.....I don't live to take drugs.

tons of hugs to ALL biggrin.gif

[vm]

The pamphlet is called, "The A.A. Member - Medications & Other Drugs". Here is an excerpt:

[quote]"...A.A. members and many of their physicians have described situations in which depressed patients have been told by A.A.s to throw away the pills, only to have depression return with all its difficulties, sometimes resulting in suicide. We have heard, too, from schizophrenics, manic depressives, epileptics, and others requiring medication that well-meaning A.A. friends often discourage them from taking prescribed medication, Unfortunately, by following a layman's advice, the sufferers find that their conditions can return with all their previous intensity..."<hr></blockquote>

[quote]"It becomes clear that just as it is wrong to enable or support any alcoholic to become readdicted to any drug, it's equally wrong to deprive any alcoholic of medication which can alleviate or control other disabling physical and/or emotional problems."<hr></blockquote>

Maybe you could find that pamphlet at one of your meetings. Basically I post this to show that AA does not take a position against the use of prescribed medications when necessary. Individual members sometimes forget that though, huh?

[girlintexas]

Hi - I know how you feel also. I've been in recovery for 2 and a half yrs. My drug of choice was alcohol and valium. I, too, take hydrocodone for chronic pain. There is no amount of non-narcotic remedies to relieve my pain. I do occasionally get massage therapy, and I try not to get too stressed out over anything. I also attend meetings about 4 nights a week. I choose not to share my drug therapy. I don't want to be judged or criticized. I do have friends in the program who are also on pain meds and we have formed our own little support group. I don't want to be high, I just don't want to hurt. I work and I want to be productive. I want to be able to sleep, and play with my little girl, and be a lover to my fiancee. I just refuse to feel guilty about it. My life is better now. Thank God I don't have to drink anymore. Hope this helps you.

[vm]

[quote] I choose not to share my drug therapy. I don't want to be judged or criticized. I do have friends in the program who are also on pain meds and we have formed our own little support group. <hr></blockquote>

That is so wonderful for you! That's how I would picture myself handling it should I ever need to take pain meds long term. Welcome to our boards, too! smile.gif

[coco1234]

Thank you so much for addressing this issue, I am picking up my two year chip 2morrow in AA and feel like crap! I have a great sponser who knows what im going through and reasures me that I am indeed sober... this has been so hard for me, my sobriety means everything to me and having IC has really tested me! All I know is, I know if i've crossed the line and to stay close to my sponser and meetings....if I cant make it 2 a mtg. because of the pain I check one out online, you are so in my prayers and know you are not alone!!! Please email me anytime if you just need to talk

CorieWatson@yahoo.com

[coco1234]

sorry forgot to say that I do have to take pain meds...

Duragesic
lortab for btp
All I know is if I dont take this medication my pain is intolerable and its a need not a want! Again thanks for bringing this up its been so hard for me to talk about!!

[bridget29]

hey i have ic and live in pain for two years iam not here to judge and sometimes i wish i could take something to make the pain go away i have not had agood night sleep in over two years because iam scared to get addicted to anything i should say while iam typing my husband is at a twelve step meeting hes been clean for six months after serving two months in the parish jail for a dirty urine after a year of soberity hes in his program in is doing very well but there is a lot of butts first i had ahydro done in was scared to take meds home so i didnt not that iam not in discomfort but i dont want the temptation there second his sister is in the i.c. unit for an overdose on lorecet the drugs are all around us and very easily can be very addictive without even notice so the question that i have after all that is do i stay in pain or do beleive in myself and trust that i need pain meds because iam in pain b/c for some reason i feel weak if i was to take them iam not sure if that made ant sense to anyone but if you get it give your best response

[tigger_gal]

hey bridget,
I sent the mod a request to move your post, so you will get better responses. you posed on an old post... which we all do lol.. but I requested that it be moved to start your own thread. :)

[vm]

Yep, I'm going to start a new thread for you Bridget. :) Thanks tigger! :)

[tigger_gal]

thanks kim :)

[Kiki B.]

Wow! My heart is absolutely breaking for all of you who are dealing with this issue. How many of you see a Chronic Pain Specialist. Make sure you get to a good one who has you abide by a contract, and who also knows about addiction, and who will also pull from mulitiple disciplines to help you out. Here's an article that lists criteria for chronic pain specialists:

http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/paincenter.html

As far as taking pain meds. to control IC pain and addiction are concerned, I'm scared to death of that, too. However, I talked it over with the nurse practitioner I see, as well as the Pain Psychologist I go to. I am also a former RN and I still keep my license active. So, this time, I did it on Pain Management, and I really got a GREAT education about chronic pain. I was an OB nurse for 5 1/2 years. I knew how to treat acute pain. Now understand, I have 2 different forms of chronic pain. One from my knees, and the other from my bladder and pelvis. I have dealt with my knee pain the most and the longest, and imagine my surprise at finding out after 9 years that the way my pain was being treated was completely WRONG!! It was also putting me at a higher risk of addiction. I was being treated prn with Vicodin. I pretty much had to beg doctors to give it to me, and then I usually got treated poorly by them. Imagine how freeing it has been to me to be getting proper treatment now, and to not have to worry about getting medication to treat my pain. It's crazy to sit around and suffer and worry. That will actually make fear worse.

Did you all know that people who suffer from chronic pain become drug addicts less than 1% of the time? What is the reason for taking the pain medicine? Is it to relieve pain, so you can live a better life, or are you trying to remove yourself from life, isolate yourself from friends and family, and live in your home never to go out and be bother by others?

I would encourage you to read the following articles:

http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/brookoff.pdf

http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/painmed.html

http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/icpain.html

http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/scale.html
(This site has an excellent IC specific pain scale to use and I would use it to explain symptoms to your doctor, too)

http://www.ic-network.com/iclifestyles/jan2003.html

These are some of the articles off of the ICN site that I have read, and some I have cried over, as doctor's have made me feel like crap for asking for pain medications and/or something to sleep. I am finally getting help in a compassionate and controlled manner from a pain specialist who knows how to appropriately treat chronic pain. Remember, it's not always about total pain relief in chronic pain, but FUNCTION. How do you function in your everyday life? If the meds. keep you from being able to function, it's time to try something else. If the pain keeps you from being able to function, it's time to try a pain specialist. Be completely open and forthright with the pain specialist if you have any type of addiction in your past or in your family. They will ask you about it. I personally didn't have addiction in my past, but I have some cousins who, but I am dependent(don't forget that dependence and tolerance ARE NOT addiction) on Ambien to sleep. Hopefully, as I get some new found hormonal problems treated, I will be able to completely come off of the infernal sleeping pill, and sleep naturally. I absolutely do need pain meds. to sleep, as pain on top of hormonal imbalances makes my ability to sleep that much worse.

So, I have a feeling that I will always need some type of pain med., and I have ceased to feel guilty about that as I have learned more and more about chronic pain. Instead of just looking at my IC or my knee injuries/surgeries as my problem, I now realize that I have another disease related to these issues. That disease is called Chronic Pain, and I have the right, the ability due to having pain mgmt. facilities in my area, and the NEED to have my pain treated responsibly.

P.S. My pain treatments are the following:

Weekly appts. with a Pain Psychologist, Appts. every 4 weeks with Pain Specialist, Methadone 5mg BID(miracle drug for IC pain), now switched to a Duragesic Patch 12.mcg/hr(to see if it will treat both bladder and knee pain), Lidoderm patches(great for both knees and pelvic pain), Baclofen 1 tab BID-TID(Treats PFD spasms), Ambien CR 6.25 mg(for sleep), Cymbalta 60mg QD(Chronic Pain Depression, Neuropathic Pain), Pyridium Plus prn for flares, and no, I'm not a drug addict, even though I do take a lot of medications.(I would really love to tell my mom that. :->)