bacterial vaginosis, completely confussed!!!!

[blackcat]

Ok didn't know where to post this, but since others have mentioned bacterial vaginosis under this section I thought maybe here was best.
I've been suffering a lot of pains down below, now I had some swabs done and have finally got the results. Although I'm now mighty confussed. The doctor said I had nothing that required treating because I'm not pregnant!!!! I didn't think to ask what it was at the time. Now I just was looking at the previous thread about bv and thought I'd search a bit more. Low and behold I find that according to american websites BV should be treated, infact some say it's important it is. Yet I go to the UK NHS website and there it seems to say that it only needs treating in pregnant women, or those with symptoms! I'm really confussed. This is the NHS site http://www.prodigy.nhs.uk/guidance.asp?gt=Bacterial+vaginosis#BI_my_patient_has_it

To save everyone having to read the whole page these are bits I'm confussed about
"In women who are not pregnant, treatment is indicated if they have symptoms."
"No treatment may be an option as the normal balance of bacteria may correct itself."

Now my big question is "if" this is what the doctor was talking about what do I do? Since it would appear in england it's not standard place to treat it, yet in the US they do. Should I try and treat it myself? Could that be why the other stuff isn't helping the vulva pain? When the swabs were being taken the nurse commented on the fact down there looked red, sore and irritated. Boy am I confussed now.

[ICLori]

Hi, Blackcat. I had bacterial vaginosis. No clinical signs of it (bad smell, itching) or anything, it just showed up on my pap smear. I didn't treat it, and by the next year it was still there so they treated it. But by this time I also had IC, and they were hoping that by treating the BV the IC would go away. It didn't, didn't make any difference. And I still have vulvar pain and redness and irritation - for me it's all because of the IC pee irritating those tissues. It's like I'm urinating out some poison or battery acid all the time that, even with short duration contact with my outer tissues, still makes them all raw and red.

Hope you feel better soon,
Blessings, Lori

[tigger_gal]

Having BV myself, I was treated right away. seeing I have IC and a very low immune system it could have spread into a larger bacteria infection.. I to was red, raw and inflamed.... she said I looked like I was scalded... I was giving metro gel.... best wishes
Cindy

[liznazz]

I am being treated right now for BV. At first, I was given Cleocin cream, which seemed to have cleared it up for awhile. Then, MetroGel (both are antibiotics in cream/gel form insterted into the vagina for the designated amount of time the dr. prescribes.). I am back on the Cleocin now, but it is not working. I have to call the ob/gyn tomorrow. Unfortunately, the symptoms of BV aggravate my IC. I am tender, somewhat swollen, itchy and uncomfortable. I have to go in for a culture which this time may require an oral antibiotic (which I hate to take) Bacterial Vaginitis does not just "go away", just as UTI doesn't. I hope your dr. will give you something for it. Let's hope we both get cleared up soon! (The dr. also prescribed diflucan, an anti-yeast med to take orally while I am being treated for the BV)

liz

[Steph2]

I wanted to share a book I'd found in the women's health section @ Barnes & Nobles. It doesn't mention IC, but it's very good. "The Acid-Alkaline Diet for Optimum Health." Author Christopher Vasey, N.D. Check it out.
Also, I, too, have been having a bout w/BV. Costco pharmacist said BV is side effect of Elmiron, but yeast inf is not. Of course uro stated can't get either!!! Whatever!

[glenda]

Here is an artical about new findings about BV:

"Molecular Identification of Bacteria Associated with Bacterial Vaginosis"
David N. Fredricks, M.D., Tina L. Fiedler, B.S., and Jeanne M. Marrazzo, M.D., M.P.H.

ABSTRACT;

Background Bacterial vaginosis affects milions of women and is associated with several serious health conditions. The cause of bacterial vaginosis remains poorly understood despite numerous studies based on cultures. Bacteria in Microbial communities can be identified without cultivation by characterizing their ribosomal DNA (rDNA) sequences.

Methods - We identified bacteria in samples of vaginal fluid with a combination of broad-range polymerase-chain-reaction (PCR) amplification of 16S rDNA with clone analysis, bacterium-specific PCR assay of 16S rDNA, and fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) performed directly on vaginal fluid from 27 subjects with bacterial vaginosis and 46 without the condition. Twenty-one subjects were studied with the use of broad-range PCR of 16S rDNA, and 73 subjects were studied with the use of bacterium-specific PCR.

Results - Women without bacterial vaginosis had 1 to 6 vaginal bacterial species (phylotypes) in each sample (mean, 3.3), as detected by broad-range PCR of 16S rDNA, and lactobacillus species were the predominant bacteria noted (83 to 100 percent of clones). Women with bacterial vaginosis had greater bacterial diversity (P<0.001), with 9 to 17 phylotypes (mean, 12.6) detected per sample and newly recognized species present in 32 to 89 percent of clones per sample library (mean, 58 percent). Thirty-five unique bacterial species were detected in the women with bacterial vaginosis, including several species with no close cultivated relatives. Bacterium-specific PCR assays showed that several bacteria that had not been previously described were highly prevalent in subjects with bacterial vaginosis but rare in healthy controls. FISH confirmed that newly recognized bacteria detected by PCR corresponded to specific bacterial morphotypes visible in vaginal fluid.



I just want to point out that this indicates how new bacteria are being discovered in previously un-understood illnesses, and they are only finding them with newly developed, high tech, equipment, such as the PCR. This could explain why currantly available antibiotics which were developed for use against "known" bacteria, might not be affective against "newly discovered" ones.

[sami4]

In our medical practice BV was always treated as the other poster said with Cleoycin and metrogel. You can also have BV and yeast at the same time. I think it is important to treat this especially if you are red, sore, and the IC is acting up. The urethra and vagina are so close that depending on the bacteria you could end up with a UTI.
I dont know why the pharmacist said Elmiron made one more likely to get yeast unless Emiron affects the hormones and then the vaginal PH goes up and you get infections? Maybe he is implying Elmiron is a hormone blocker? Never heard this before.
Sammie

[Katrina]

Since this thread is from '04 there may be some confussion sorry.
Costco pharmacist said BV is side effect of Elmiron, but yeast inf is not. Of course uro stated can't get either!!!
I don't think BV is a side effect of Elmiron or that Elmiron affects hormones...

[glenda]

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to shed some light on it with this up-to-date artical about bv. It could be helpful for anyone who is dealing with this condition now. I'd like to just let people know that this problem is being researched and that there have been advancements made in identifying new pathogens involved with bv.

[Katrina]

glenda, maybe what you said will help someone....but I want people that see this active thread to realize that the person who started it may not be answering any questions or things since it is quite old.

[glenda]

Thank you, Katrina! I should have mentioned it in the beginning of my post.

[Judith56]

I have had BV several times and metrogel is what I use. For me it works wonders!

[July]

What were your symptoms of BV?

[glenda]

They say that BV may not cause symptoms in everyone, but for the women it does cause symptoms for there is usually a significant amount of discharge, usually thin and may or may not have an odd odor to it. It may cause the vagina to burn or sting, and it also causes bladder symptoms in some patients, such as frequency and urgency.

Metrogel seems to work well for most patients, but most women who have had BV will almost always get it again, meaning it is reaccuring. My, personal, beliefe is that there is a particular strain or colony of bacteria that persists even after treatment with such antibiotics as metrogel, which is why BV has a tendancy to be reaccurant. The artical that I posted above points this out, and explains that a recent study shows a correlation between newly discovered strains of bacteria and BV.

[ICPrincess]

Whenever I start flaring, I always insert an applicator-full of MetroGel and take a Fluconazole (Diflucan). Believe it or not, most of the time my IC feels better. My personal feeling is that ANY bacteria that begins to multiply is what causes IC flares (not in every case but many of my own experiences). I can't afford to run to a doctor everytime so I keep on hand Metrogel, Fluconazole and Macrobid. You get to know your body so well that often times you can tell what's going on (and I buy test kits for UTI's). I've noticed that yeast does not always present itself in the traditional ways. It can be in your body and not show up on a swab and yet you drop a Fluconazole and boom....you feel better in a couple of days.

P.S. By the way Katrina, thanks for all the info on yeast. :)

[sunspot127]

I have it right now and am about to start a course of Flagyl. I have Metrogel, but I don't like it. I feel like it gunks me up. I also have Clindesse, which is a one-dose cream that stays in you for 7 days, but again...gunkiness. Flagyl pills taste awful and you can't consume alcohol (and must be careful about toiletries with alcohol in them), but I'm not a drinker so I'll take it any day. I just had BV about a month ago, so I'm upset to hear that it becomes a recurring issue. But, I always had back to back yeast infections and I haven't had one of those in a while...maybe I just switched one infection for the other!
For those of you who use metrogel, how often and how much do you use it?
Have any of you used clindesse?

[ICPrincess]

Flagyl makes me very ill. It's known to be extremely harsh. I felt very ill on it. I talked to my urologist and she said that it was nonsensical for my gynecologist to prescribe Flagyl anyway when Metrogel (Flagyl in vaginal form...same drug basically and you cannot drink while using Metrogel either) is easier on the system and specially designed for Bacterial Vaginosis. I felt the same way. Why take something systemic for what is in my vagina and that there is specific treatment for. I was actually thrilled to learn of Metrogel. It has been a lifesaver for me! The thing that thrilled me even more is that it does not bother my IC! It doesn't burn like other vaginal preperations. I didn't feel any gunkiness. Its a smooth gel and didn't do much of anything but cure my BV. I also didn't have all the side effects of the oral version (Flagyl). I get recurring BV after my periods and so I use Metrogel as a preventative more then anything else. I use one applicator-ful every month after my period (sometimes two days in a row) and it keeps me going good. My doctor said that people either do that or Boric Acid (which I will not do). I know that some women have done fine with Boric acid but I also know women who have burned their vagina's with it and it seeps out so if you wake up several times a night to go to the bathroom, it can seep out and touch the urethra...no thanks).

[sunspot127]

I've used Metrogel so I know it's smooth and everything but it takes forever to get out of there, and I didn't find it to be as smooth as it worked it's way out. It felt grainy to me. Like I tried having intercourse about 2 weeks after I used it, and it was all grainy still. I was told I didn't have to watch alcohol while using it...I had some wine with dinner while using it and felt fine, which is the major plus side to using it for me. However, I feel like the infection already put my vagina out of order, then I have to be out of order for a week while I treat it. Then, I am out of order for another week (maybe longer) while waiting for all the crap I shoved up there to work it's way out. I hate Flagyl, but at least my vagina is done in 7 days. However, that one applicator full idea around period time as a prophylactic dose doesn't sound too bad...as long as it doesn't take forever to come back out!

[ICPrincess]

Please be careful Sunspot. I say this in all sincerety. If you ask your pharmacist or read the insert to metrogel, you are not supposed to have anything with alcohol in it for at least 48 hours. You may have gotten lucky but people have had severe reactions (less likely with the vaginal formula but they have ocurred and can be serious). I tell you this only to caution you. There is a component to Metrogel and Flagyl that is very similar to Disulfiram. When this interacts with alcohol it makes you sick...even in tiny amounts.

This is from Drugs.Com:

METRONIDAZOLE (Vaginal)

Some commonly used brand names are:

In the U.S.-

* MetroGel-Vaginal

In Canada-

* Flagyl
* Nidagel

Category

* Anti-infective, vaginal

Description

Metronidazole (me-troe-NI-da-zole) is used to treat certain vaginal infections. It works by killing bacteria. This medicine will not work for vaginal fungus or yeast infections.

Metronidazole is available only with your doctor's prescription, in the following dosage forms:

* Vaginal Cream (Canada)
* Gel (U.S. and Canada)
* Tablets (Canada)

Before Using This Medicine

In deciding whether to use a medicine, the risks of using the medicine must be weighed against the good it will do. This is a decision you and your doctor will make. For vaginal metronidazole, the following should be considered:

Allergies-Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to metronidazole. Also tell your health care professional if you are allergic to any other substances, such as foods, preservatives, or dyes.

Pregnancy-Vaginal metronidazole has not been studied in pregnant women. Metronidazole given by mouth (e.g., Flagyl) has not been shown to cause birth defects. Before taking this medicine, make sure your doctor knows if you are pregnant or if you may become pregnant.

Breast-feeding-Use is not recommended in nursing mothers since metronidazole passes into breast milk and may cause unwanted effects in the baby. In addition, metronidazole may change the taste of your breast milk. Your doctor may want you to stop breast-feeding and use this medicine for a short time. During this time the breast milk should be pumped or drawn out with a breast pump and thrown away. Two days after you finish using this medicine, you may go back to breast-feeding.

Children-Studies on these medicines have been done only in adult patients, and there is no specific information comparing use of vaginal metronidazole in children with use in other age groups.

Older adults-Many medicines have not been studied specifically in older people. Therefore, it may not be known whether they work exactly the same way they do in younger adults or if they cause different side effects or problems in older people. There is no specific information comparing use of metronidazole in the elderly with use in other age groups.

Other medicines-Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. When you are using vaginal metronidazole it is especially important that your health care professional know if you are taking any of the following:

* Alcohol or alcohol-containing medicines (e.g., NyQuil, Geritol)-Metronidazole can cause serious side effects such as abdominal cramping, flushing, headache, nausea, or vomiting when it is used with alcohol

The one applicatorful has been working for me and I also sometimes have to zap myself with one Fluconazole (Diflucan generic) when I think it may be yeast instead of BV. Just be careful of the alcohol though (espeically with Flagyl in it's oral form you can get extremely ill there and you'll know it)!

[sunspot127]

I have never taken alcohol with Flagyl and never would. In my first post, I noted the danger, along with the fact that I'm not a drinker, and avoiding alcohol is not an issue for me in the least. I was told that by not taking the medication orally, and by using it vaginally instead, you could avoid that danger. Apparently, I got lucky! However, I am not one to tempt fate. The future is not a concern.

[ICPrincess]

Just trying to help you avoid what might be really unpleasant if you think that its ok to drink with Metrogel. I am sure that some have done it not knowing that it is the same thing as Flagyl. but not a good idea as you can see from what I posted from Drugs.Com. I am not one to tempt fate ever when it comes to drugs because I am very sensitive to medications. Hey, I learn more on here than I do from my own doctors. The women out here will give you all kinds of helpful information. :)

[Katrina]

of Flagyl. I have Metrogel, but I don't like it. I feel like it gunks me up. I also have Clindesse, which is a one-dose cream that stays in you for 7 days, but again...gunkiness. Flagyl pills taste awful and you can't consume alcohol (and must be careful about toiletries with alcohol in them), but I'm not a drinker so I'll take it any day. I just had BV about a month ago, so I'm upset to hear that it becomes a recurring issue. But, I always had back to back yeast infections and I haven't had one of those in a while...maybe I just switched one infection for the other!

Agreed. Flagyl I always have to swallow by itself because if it melts and I taste it ...yuck!!!!! (pretty much on it a lot since it is used for my IBD) And I have gotten warned numerous times from doctors not to drink while on it...even though I have never had a drink in my life.

[glenda]

Katrina, I remember reading that you've had a portion of your colon removed, correct me if I'm wrong. Would you mind if I asked you if you've had cancer of the colon? If it's too personal of a question then please don't answer. I'm curious cuz I've been looking into my family medical hystory to see if there is anything that can relate to the symptoms that I'm presently experiencing, and one of the things I know is that my grandfather had colon cancer. He went through a series of surgeries over his years which cut out portions of his colon to eliminate the cancer.

[Katrina]

I didn't have a portion of it removed....the ENTIRE THING has been removed. Not because of colon cancer but because of severe ulcerative colitis which I know can increase the risk of colon cancer. I was a very unique case...I was 10 when diagnosed, 12 when the colon was removed, and they believed I had it for two years prior to diagnosis and there is no Inflammatory Bowel Disease of any kind in my family except in me. I am still a unique case since my pouch is so severely inflammed and that is very, very unique....but I am still alive. I am willing to answer any questions that I can about my own health. I can't answer many questions about life before I was 12 since I had a severe seizure that made me loose my memory at that age.

:grouphug:

[glenda]

:angel: Thank you for your fast response. I'm so genuinely sorry to hear all of this!
BLESSINGS!!!

[ICPrincess]

OMG Katrina!

I felt so terrible reading what you have been through. I'm glad you are with us too. You sound like a very strong person and always try helping others out here when you have such troubles of your own. I had no idea. My heart goes out to you. Thanks for sharing that.

[sami4]

My experience has been much like IC Princess-every time I have had a bad flare I also had either BV or yeast. I too, found out if I take a Diflucan at the first sign of trouble, usually urethral burning and red vulva, I can head off a major flare. It would be very hard to convince me that IC in my case does not have a close association with yeast and BV on some level.
Sammie